Question: "Overhead Entry to Downwind?"

So, I'm wondering if their overhead approach to an un-controlled field is
"approved"?

As I am sure the libertarians on this newsgroup will tell you, there
is no approved approach, in the sense that certain approaches are okay
and others are not.

And it is local custom at some airports to descend into the traffic
pattern. Personally, I have never seen it, and I hope that I never
will. (I don't even particularly care for the mid-field crossover

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

If that is your attitude, maybe YOU need to adjust YOUR attitude!

If you called the 45, you were NOT in the traffic pattern! Did you pay
attention to the frequency? Did the formation call "initial"?

As I warned in my post, when you (that is, the original poster) start
to question the holy right of libertarian pilots to do what they
damned well please in the pattern, you are going to get some heated
replies.

My own policy is this: when there are idiots in the pattern, either
take your best shot to get on the ground safely, or go away and land
somewhere else. These people have closed minds, and they are flying
airplanes that can kill you.

My favorite example of this sort of booby was the *instructor* who had
his student fly *straight in* to a field where neither had landed
before, that was marked "heavy flight training," and that did its
training in NORDO aircraft -- and then bawled out the Cub driver on
base for not listening to the radio calls!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

In other words, you're free to violate any regulation that's not enforced.

And then you explain that it's "pilot's discretion"

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

Shall we arrest the FAA, then?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:11_Mb.46583$na.36172@attbi_s04...
Descending into a leg of the pattern is generally considered to be less
than safe
due to the risk of a collision. It's a little less dangerous when the
descending
aircraft is a high-wing, but it's still frowned upon.

While what you say is true, I have tried the "overhead break" on occasion,
and found it to be a very good way to see the entire pattern before entry.
It's also a lot of fun.

In the UK, the standard entry at an uncontrolled field is an overhead
join. You arrive above circuit height and then descend on the "dead
side", i.e. the opposide side to the downwind. You then fly crosswind
to downwind. As Jay said, it's a good way of seeing any traffic that is
currently in the circuit. It's also the way to see the windsock.

What you don't do is descend into the circuit.

Paul

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...

Shall we arrest the FAA, then?


From a pilot's viewpoint, I do not see a downside to that.

I'm sitting here looking at my handy-dandy little PDQ pattern calculator...

For left traffic, it shows a 45 degree entry with a right to downwind, a
left to base, and a left to final. (Obviously, for right traffic, everything
is reversed).

I'm still a wannabe, but everything I have read indicates this is the
correct method for flying a pattern. Are there any F.A.R.s that indicate
otherwise?




"Mike O'Malley" wrote in message
...
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
news

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

You are allowed to enter the traffic pattern any way you like.


Well, not just any way, there is a restriction on the direction of
turns.

Please explain to me how it is possible to "enter on a 45 to the downwind"
AND "make all turns to the left in the traffic pattern" (that is
paraphrased
from memory). In fact, if one were to only make left turns in the traffic
pattern, an overhead approach would be one of the ONLY ways to enter the
pattern. Of course, one very few people are looking for. :-)

--
Mike

"Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

The regulation does not require turns "in the pattern" to be to the left, it
requires the pilot of an airplane approaching to land at an airport without
an operating control tower to make all turns to the left. The 45 degree
entry to downwind violates the regulation.

While I'm inclined to agree with you that you have the
better interpretation of that regulation, it's also clear
that the FAA recommends a procedure that on its face seems
to be illegal. If the FAA's recommendation is legal, then
the logical reason must be that making the 45 right turn
entry to the pattern occurs before the pilot is "approaching
to land." It seems odd, given that the 45 entry is part of
the defined pattern for the approach to landing, but I've
seen the language in other FAR's strained farther than that.
Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

Cub Driver wrote:

And it is local custom at some airports to descend into the traffic
pattern. Personally, I have never seen it, and I hope that I never
will. (I don't even particularly care for the mid-field crossover

In my last 1000 flights, I'd estimate that 90% include a
descent into the pattern and 60% include a mid field
crossover. It's pretty difficult not to descend, even in
the pattern, when flying a glider, and when a mid field
crossover is standard at your airport to avoid the ridge,
then that's what everyone does. Keep your eyes open out
there.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

"Bill Denton" wrote in message
...

I'm sitting here looking at my handy-dandy little PDQ pattern
calculator...

For left traffic, it shows a 45 degree entry with a right to downwind, a
left to base, and a left to final. (Obviously, for right traffic,
everything
is reversed).

I'm still a wannabe, but everything I have read indicates this is the
correct method for flying a pattern. Are there any F.A.R.s that indicate
otherwise?


Yes.


§ 91.126 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class G
airspace.

(a) General. Unless otherwise authorized or required, each person
operating an aircraft on or in the vicinity of an airport in a Class G
airspace area must comply with the requirements of this section.

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an
operating control tower in Class G airspace --

(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to
the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual
markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case
the pilot must make all turns to the right; and

(2) Each pilot of a helicopter must avoid the flow of fixed-wing
aircraft.


§91.127 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in Class E airspace.

(a) Unless otherwise required by part 93 of this chapter or unless
otherwise authorized or required by the ATC facility having jurisdiction
over the Class E airspace area, each person operating an aircraft on or in
the vicinity of an airport in a Class E airspace area must comply with the
requirements of §91.126.