U.S. glider operations fuel prices

I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.

High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.
Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to
keep the sport affordable

Locally here in Ca we currently pay $5.60 per gal 100LL and there is an
airport 20 miles away charging $5.21 per gal. An online search of current
fuel prices shows that throughout the six continental U.S. regions the
average price per gal 100LL is between $5.43 and $5.76. Is anyone aware of
any U.S. fixed glider operations paying $13 per gallon, or for that matter
any fixed operations that are paying in excess of $7?

Using the Pawnee as an example, operating costs are only driven partly
by fuel, if fuel was 12/gal vs 6/gal, tow costs would not double, but
increase by 30-50%.

If you are in Socal, have you explored the non ethanol mogas available
at Petrolock from cleargas? Mogas STC for Pawnee exists as long as no
alcohol in the mix.

I am all for ground launch, but really, clubs are the immediate short
term answer. Joining a club with a nice two seater, one can reduce
your off season and BFR cost significantly by spliting the tow fee.

aerodyne

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:12:23 PM UTC-7, aerodyne wrote:
Using the Pawnee as an example, operating costs are only driven partly

by fuel, if fuel was 12/gal vs 6/gal, tow costs would not double, but

increase by 30-50%.



If you are in Socal, have you explored the non ethanol mogas available

at Petrolock from cleargas? Mogas STC for Pawnee exists as long as no

alcohol in the mix.



I am all for ground launch, but really, clubs are the immediate short

term answer. Joining a club with a nice two seater, one can reduce

your off season and BFR cost significantly by spliting the tow fee.



aerodyne

Mogas STC does not apply to the Pawnee D airframe.

Frank Whiteley

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:12:23 PM UTC-7, aerodyne wrote:
Using the Pawnee as an example, operating costs are only driven partly

by fuel, if fuel was 12/gal vs 6/gal, tow costs would not double, but

increase by 30-50%.

That's direct fuel cost. The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.

That's direct fuel cost. *The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.

OK - so the Pawnee D does not have the STC - what about all the
earlier models made 20 years or so prior? The bulk of the fleet I'd
wager.

Insurance, maintenance, and hanger rent driven proportionaly by fuel
cost? I doubt that. Show me the numbers!

On Nov 20, 2:25*pm, aerodyne wrote:
That's direct fuel cost. *The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.

OK - so the Pawnee D does not have the STC - what about all the
earlier models made 20 years or so prior? *The bulk of the fleet I'd
wager.

Insurance, maintenance, and hanger rent driven proportionaly by fuel
cost? *I doubt that. *Show me the numbers!

Re Numbers:
Yesterday in NV, mom & pop commercial FBO. One of ths launches in 15kt
wind to 1,900 ft agl, ASK21, two pilots, one winch driver, (busy
grandmother of 12), one $10,000 winch, 28 ounces of premium gas equals
$1 fuel costs. (And who needs a wing runner on a paved runway?) Get
with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the
1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport.
Karen Henderson.

On Thursday, November 22, 2012 2:31:23 PM UTC+1, Karen wrote:
Get with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the 1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport. Karen Henderson.

Karen, the US has been doing it since the 1930s, too. And not all German clubs use a winch - I visited a nice soaring club near Aachen a week ago (they were flying everything from a DG-1000 to an open cockpit oldie) that has too short runways to consider a winch - the price of land would never make it economical. We have almost the same problem at our club here in St Louis - we own a big grass strip, perfect for aerotowing, but at 2700' just a bit too short for "get away" winching - and we have roads at both ends preventing extending much more.

It's a nice option, though. Fun, too! If you can do it, go for it!

But a Pawnee is a LOT more fun to drive than a winch...

Kirk
66

On Thursday, November 22, 2012 6:31:23 AM UTC-7, Karen wrote:
On Nov 20, 2:25*pm, aerodyne wrote:

That's direct fuel cost. *The non-fuel costs are also driven by the price of fuel - but indirectly as pass thru.



OK - so the Pawnee D does not have the STC - what about all the

earlier models made 20 years or so prior? *The bulk of the fleet I'd

wager.



Insurance, maintenance, and hanger rent driven proportionaly by fuel

cost? *I doubt that. *Show me the numbers!



Re Numbers:

Yesterday in NV, mom & pop commercial FBO. One of ths launches in 15kt

wind to 1,900 ft agl, ASK21, two pilots, one winch driver, (busy

grandmother of 12), one $10,000 winch, 28 ounces of premium gas equals

$1 fuel costs. (And who needs a wing runner on a paved runway?) Get

with the program USA. The Germans have been doing it since the

1930's. The little UK still does more flights than we do per airport.

Karen Henderson.

Please, Karen take care with wing down takeoffs. Yes it can 'work' but the safety margins are tiny. If the slightest drag develops on the down wing, the opposite wing will accelerate leading to a very ugly ground loop or worse. A CG hook won't keep the glider straight like a nose hook. You're literally playing Russian Roulette - people have died.

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 11:30:04 AM UTC-7, soarin wrote:
I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.



High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.

Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to

keep the sport affordable



Locally here in Ca we currently pay $5.60 per gal 100LL and there is an

airport 20 miles away charging $5.21 per gal. An online search of current

fuel prices shows that throughout the six continental U.S. regions the

average price per gal 100LL is between $5.43 and $5.76. Is anyone aware of

any U.S. fixed glider operations paying $13 per gallon, or for that matter

any fixed operations that are paying in excess of $7?

http://www.airnav.com/fuel/report.html

On Nov 20, 12:30*pm, Soarin Again wrote:
I recently read a a blurb on the SSA home page that claims the following.

High AVGAS prices ($6-$13/gal currently) are hurting aero tow operations.
Ultimately, US soaring will have to adopt fuel efficient winch launch to
keep the sport affordable


Boy, there is a lot of editorial mixed up with facts there!

Our club flies out of a 1600' runway. Winch would mean buying $1
million or more of land.

Winch means more people. OK, if you have people wiling to work for
free (or not count the actual cost of their time) good for you. If
we're talking about a commercial operation, it's not at all clear that
two more employees at x per hour is cost effective.

John Cochrane