Kerry -- WAY WAY OFF THREAD BUT INTERESTING.

C J Campbell wrote:

What would be interesting would be Kerry's (or any candidate's, for the
matter) opinion on issues relevant to general aviation -- security, the
aviation trust fund, airport conservation and protection, access to
wilderness airports, taxation, TFRs, the Washington ADIZ, international
travel restrictions, etc.

AOPA polled both candidates on GA issues before the last election. As I recall,
Gore refused to respond and Bush has pushed privatization more than his responses
indicated he would. I would expect that AOPA will send something similar to both
candidates this time too, once it becomes clear who the Democratic candidate is.

George Patterson
A diplomat is a person who can tell you to go to hell in such a way that
you look forward to the trip.

My apologies to all who feel put upon.

There have been numerous 'off thread' postings on
rec.aviation.piloting concerning Kerry and I felt this might level
the playing field a little?

I received this article from military channels I still retain so it
can be considered the other side of the coin.

Big John



On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:30:28 -0600, Big John
wrote:


I spent 3 months in the 'Delta" which inluded providing CAS to the
Navy operations in the Mekong in 1967. Met and worked with Seal teams
and other Navy operations. This sounds like a true account from what I
saw and heard.

I wonder if he really flies his (wifes) bird or just rides and logs
time?

Big John
````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````````````````````````````


By a USNA grad ('59) and Rear Admiral (Ret.)

I was in the Delta shortly after he left. I know that area well. I
know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and
the doctrine used. I know the equipment. Although I was attached to
CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift
boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:

(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected, a Bronze
Star, a Silver Star and three purple hearts. I never heard of anybody
with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves,
Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware so
fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable
job. But that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated
only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The
rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster
PBRs.

(2) Three Purple Hearts but no limp. All injuries so minor that no
time lost from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for
medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat
on the boats was almost always at close range. You didn't have minor
wounds. At least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used
the three purple hearts to request a trip home eight months before the
end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star
make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and
missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow
gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat,
jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he
did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your
stern to the action and go balls to the wall. A B-40 has the
ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50
yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your
.50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber
round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was
empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was
no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few
seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring do in your after-action
report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against
that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing
procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area.
EVER! The reason was simple. If you had somebody on the beach your
boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It
was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been
relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever
leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for
carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by
running across the bow of a Jap destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam
long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy
in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight
months early, requests separation from active duty a few months after
that so he can run for Congress, finds out war heros don't sell well
in Massachsetts in 1970 so reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his
ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his
political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address
Congress and Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting,
winds up in the Senate himself a few years later, votes against every
major defense bill, says the CIA is irrelevant after the Wall came
down, votes against the Gulf War, a big mistake since that turned out
well, decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading
Iraq, but oops, that didn't turn out so well so he now says he really
didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to
war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in
Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander in Chief. I hope that
somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's
Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated. And fishy.

"Big John" wrote in message
...
My apologies to all who feel put upon.

There have been numerous 'off thread' postings on
rec.aviation.piloting concerning Kerry and I felt this might level
the playing field a little?

Your scorekeeping is faulty, John. Virtually all the off-topic pro-Kerry
comments here were made to level the field in response to off-topic
anti-Kerry comments.

As for balance, though, allow me to briefly counter the sex-scandal hoax
that you and others have been foisting on this group. From today's NYT:

---
Also today, the woman at the center of a charge, posted last week on the Web
site of the Internet gossip columnist Matt Drudge, that Mr. Kerry had had an
extramarital affair with her, came forward to deny the rumors. Mr. Kerry had
also denied the charge last week.
In a statement released by the woman, Alexandra Polier, and circulated by
The Associated Press, she called the charge "lies."

"Because these stories were false, I assumed the media would ignore them,"
she said. "It seems that efforts to peddle these lies continue, so I feel
compelled to address them. I have never had a relationship with Senator
Kerry, and the rumors in the press are completely false. Whoever is
spreading these rumors and allegations does not know me, but should know the
pain they have caused me and my family." She said she was in Kenya today
with her fiancé visiting his family.

---

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message
news:EmaYb.45782$_44.43486@attbi_s52...
"Big John" wrote in message
...
My apologies to all who feel put upon.

There have been numerous 'off thread' postings on
rec.aviation.piloting concerning Kerry and I felt this might level
the playing field a little?

Your scorekeeping is faulty, John. Virtually all the off-topic pro-Kerry
comments here were made to level the field in response to off-topic
anti-Kerry comments.

The Bush bashing began in a thread celebrating John Kerry being a small GA
pilot. That thread was on topic briefly.

Gary

Did you get this from Drudge? Seems to be word for word what I read
there today?

If you saw it on Drudge then he must be posting both sides of this cat
fight and not just the 'right' as has been alleged.

Big John

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:12:04 GMT, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
My apologies to all who feel put upon.

There have been numerous 'off thread' postings on
rec.aviation.piloting concerning Kerry and I felt this might level
the playing field a little?

Your scorekeeping is faulty, John. Virtually all the off-topic pro-Kerry
comments here were made to level the field in response to off-topic
anti-Kerry comments.

As for balance, though, allow me to briefly counter the sex-scandal hoax
that you and others have been foisting on this group. From today's NYT:

---
Also today, the woman at the center of a charge, posted last week on the Web
site of the Internet gossip columnist Matt Drudge, that Mr. Kerry had had an
extramarital affair with her, came forward to deny the rumors. Mr. Kerry had
also denied the charge last week.
In a statement released by the woman, Alexandra Polier, and circulated by
The Associated Press, she called the charge "lies."

"Because these stories were false, I assumed the media would ignore them,"
she said. "It seems that efforts to peddle these lies continue, so I feel
compelled to address them. I have never had a relationship with Senator
Kerry, and the rumors in the press are completely false. Whoever is
spreading these rumors and allegations does not know me, but should know the
pain they have caused me and my family." She said she was in Kenya today
with her fiancé visiting his family.

---

"Big John" wrote in message
...
Gary

Did you get this from Drudge? Seems to be word for word what I read
there today?

No, as I said, it's from the NYT (New York Times). And as the excerpt
notes, Ms. Polier's statement was circulated by the AP (Associated Press),
so it's appeared almost everywhere.

If you saw it on Drudge then he must be posting both sides of this cat
fight and not just the 'right' as has been alleged.

No, that's not what's alleged of Drudge. What's alleged--and amply
demonstrated--is that he spreads right-wing gossip and rumors before ongoing
responsible investigations have found any credible substantiation.
Occasionally, the rumors turn out to be true, and Drudge's irresponsibility
then gives him a brief "scoop" over journalists who wait a few days longer
for the facts to be available. More often, as in this instance, the rumors
are bogus. But of course Drudge joins everyone else in airing the facts
when they do become available. What would he gain from omitting information
that his readers have already learned anyway?

The mainstream press is just as eager as Drudge to milk a salacious scandal.
The difference is that they at least wait until they've found some evidence.

--Gary

Big John

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 21:12:04 GMT, "Gary Drescher"
wrote:

"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
My apologies to all who feel put upon.

There have been numerous 'off thread' postings on
rec.aviation.piloting concerning Kerry and I felt this might level
the playing field a little?

Your scorekeeping is faulty, John. Virtually all the off-topic pro-Kerry
comments here were made to level the field in response to off-topic
anti-Kerry comments.

As for balance, though, allow me to briefly counter the sex-scandal hoax
that you and others have been foisting on this group. From today's NYT:

---
Also today, the woman at the center of a charge, posted last week on the
Web
site of the Internet gossip columnist Matt Drudge, that Mr. Kerry had had
an
extramarital affair with her, came forward to deny the rumors. Mr. Kerry
had
also denied the charge last week.
In a statement released by the woman, Alexandra Polier, and circulated by
The Associated Press, she called the charge "lies."

"Because these stories were false, I assumed the media would ignore
them,"
she said. "It seems that efforts to peddle these lies continue, so I feel
compelled to address them. I have never had a relationship with Senator
Kerry, and the rumors in the press are completely false. Whoever is
spreading these rumors and allegations does not know me, but should know
the
pain they have caused me and my family." She said she was in Kenya today
with her fiancé visiting his family.

---

"Big John" wrote



What I find fascinating is to look at the quotes attributed to Ms Polier's
father as time has passed:
********************
Mr. Polier 2/14
"I think he's a sleazeball. I did kind of wonder if my daughter didn't get
that kind of feeling herself. He's not the sort of guy I would choose to be
with my daughter."

Mr. Polier 2/16
"We have spoken to our daughter and the allegations that have been made
regarding her are completely false and unsubstantiated...We appreciate the
way Senator Kerry has handled the situation, and intend on voting for him
for president of the United States."
***************************


What happened between Saturday and Monday??

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...

"Big John" wrote
What I find fascinating is to look at the quotes attributed to Ms Polier's
father as time has passed:
********************
Mr. Polier 2/14
"I think he's a sleazeball. I did kind of wonder if my daughter didn't get
that kind of feeling herself. He's not the sort of guy I would choose to
be
with my daughter."

Mr. Polier 2/16
"We have spoken to our daughter and the allegations that have been made
regarding her are completely false and unsubstantiated...We appreciate the
way Senator Kerry has handled the situation, and intend on voting for him
for president of the United States."
***************************


What happened between Saturday and Monday??

What happened was a gross public distortion of the parents' remarks, to the
detriment of their daughter and to Kerry, which the parents presumably
regretted. But there's no inconsistency between the two statements. Lots
of voters consider all mainstream politicians to be sleazeballs, but will
still vote for the best of the lot.

The parents in fact denied any affair from the outset. They did say that
Kerry invited Ms. Polier *to join his campaign*, and the sleazier tabloids
quoted snippets out of context to make it sound like the parents had
knowledge of some sexual proposition. The trickery was obvious upon careful
reading, but the tabloids are (to put it charitably) not aimed at careful
readers.

--Gary

John

Do you think someone 'got' to him????

Remember, Mary Jo's family settled for a few hundred thousands and
........................??

Big John


On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 09:34:32 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:


"Big John" wrote



What I find fascinating is to look at the quotes attributed to Ms Polier's
father as time has passed:
********************
Mr. Polier 2/14
"I think he's a sleazeball. I did kind of wonder if my daughter didn't get
that kind of feeling herself. He's not the sort of guy I would choose to be
with my daughter."

Mr. Polier 2/16
"We have spoken to our daughter and the allegations that have been made
regarding her are completely false and unsubstantiated...We appreciate the
way Senator Kerry has handled the situation, and intend on voting for him
for president of the United States."
***************************


What happened between Saturday and Monday??

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message

...... From today's NYT:

In a statement .... Alexandra Polier.... called the charge "lies."

"Because these stories were false, I assumed the media would ignore them,"


Now, at the risk of sounding just a little cynical, do you seriously think
that anyone who has worked for a large media outlet would really believe
that? :-)