Is a 45 year old student pilot considered 'youth'?

...when the 2-33s finally wear out...
What do you mean? They are not already ...???

"Small, exclusive and expensive"...I think we are already there. At my local commercial operation, a 3,000 ft tow is $60, one hour in a L23 is $50 and instruction is $50 per hour. If you end up with no lift, you have about a 15-16 minute sled ride. Figure in the minimum charges for the glider rental and the CFIG and you are north of $100 for essentially 15 minutes of flying. That is entertainment to the tune of $400 per hour. I don't know many folks that have that kind of entertainment budget. THAT is one problem hindering the growth and sustainability of this sport.

A clue: http://youtu.be/MeHoOViUQXc

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 12:53:15 -0800, Sean F (F2) wrote:

A clue: http://youtu.be/MeHoOViUQXc

IMO thats a terrible video for promoting its sport - more talking heads
than action and what action there is was so fragmented and distant that I
couldn't get any feel for what the sport might be like to take part in.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Martin,

If you followed the series on the youth americas cup, as millions of young sailors do, you would notice that several videos are released each week and have been for months. Some with more action, others with more interview. The point is that this is a major piece of the America's Cup event and its marketing. Soaring could be marketed so much better. Could we agree on that?

On Saturday, February 23, 2013 12:37:55 PM UTC-5, wrote:
"Small, exclusive and expensive"...I think we are already there. At my local commercial operation, a 3,000 ft tow is $60, one hour in a L23 is $50 and instruction is $50 per hour. If you end up with no lift, you have about a 15-16 minute sled ride. Figure in the minimum charges for the glider rental and the CFIG and you are north of $100 for essentially 15 minutes of flying. That is entertainment to the tune of $400 per hour. I don't know many folks that have that kind of entertainment budget. THAT is one problem hindering the growth and sustainability of this sport.

Commercial operations obviously bring a lot of value to the sport, but that is a one-sided view. I know personally of four clubs in the USA that offer much more affordable soaring. In each case there is significant philanthropy, a few big gifts and many smaller ones, and considerable volunteer contributions of time. It adds up over the years and as a relative newcomer to the sport I have been the beneficiary. (Thanks BTW!) All of these clubs have a pretty good (albeit aging) fleet of gliders as well. Three of the airports have subsidized programs for youngsters. These are not exclusive 'yacht clubs'.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 13:40:18 -0800, Sean F (F2) wrote:

Martin,

If you followed the series on the youth americas cup, as millions of
young sailors do, you would notice that several videos are released each
week and have been for months. Some with more action, others with more
interview. The point is that this is a major piece of the America's Cup
event and its marketing. Soaring could be marketed so much better.
Could we agree on that?

Sure, more exposure outside the soaring fraternity would be good. I
thought you were putting that video up as a good example of the sort of
thing we should be aiming for. My reaction to it is that if I was a
member on good standing of the small boat racing fraternity I'd think it
was great, but OTOH its not good for pulling outsiders in because it
fails to show why its talking heads love sailboat racing. In fact I think
you're agreeing with me: you say that "millions of young sailors" follow
it which shows that its primary audience are already hooked rather than
the non-sailors who might be attracted into the sport. As such its not
even attempting to do the same job as the SAA youtube channel or Lets Go
Gliding have been set up to do.

BTW, I wonder if the growing numbers of FPV RC flyers might be a useful
target audience. FPV is initial slang for "First Person View", the idea
being that you fit a video camera and downlink to an RC model and then
fly it by peering into a screen. IOW its a halfway house between the
simulator flyers and us. Please also bear in mind that the majority of
present day RC flyers are not traditional aeromodellers. Most don't
design or build their models: they buy them assembled, painted and almost
ready to fly.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Try this one!

http://youtu.be/EQw5AjrBjXE

The USA desperately needs more youth pilots. I am starting to work on this a bit and plan on putting some real effort in for the coming years.

Sean

I agree that "learning" to fly gliders is quite expensive. I try to assure
my students that there is "light at the end of the tunnel."

As you get better at the sport, the price goes way down.

Clubs are typically in the $500 to $1000 per year cost range.

The cost of ownership (individual or with partner) of a modest glider is
not much more that that......(I'm leaving out the cost of the glider itself
figuring the glider can most likely be sold at any time for your purchase
price)

You soon learn to "choose your days" ... don't fly on days that are going
to be sleigh rides...

Once you learn to find thermals during tow, you can usually release at
2000' or less, saving $10 or more per tow. (Clubs typically offer tows for
about 1/2 the price of commercial operators, but clubs with tow planes
typically have higher dues..it is a wash....unless if you fly a lot, then a
towing club is a big cost advantage.

Once you start mastering thermalling, and then x country...flights of 3
hours become "normal" and many flights will be 6 or even 8 hours. Flying at
a ridge location, you can literally fly all day long if you so desire.
(Obviously the longer the flight, the lower the cost per hour.)

Now if you fly say, every other week.... you can do the math and find that
the cost drops to under $50 per hour...probably more like $25.

Suddenly, gliding becomes cheaper than Golf, or Skiing, or drinking at the
bar, etc!

I've had years where gliding cost me around to $10 per hour!!!

Cookie





At 17:37 23 February 2013, wrote:
"Small, exclusive and expensive"...I think we are already there. At my
loca=
l commercial operation, a 3,000 ft tow is $60, one hour in a L23 is $50
and=
instruction is $50 per hour. If you end up with no lift, you have about
a
=
15-16 minute sled ride. Figure in the minimum charges for the glider
rental=
and the CFIG and you are north of $100 for essentially 15 minutes of
flyin=
g. That is entertainment to the tune of $400 per hour. I don't know many
fo=
lks that have that kind of entertainment budget. THAT is one problem
hinder=
ing the growth and sustainability of this sport.

Superb!

On Saturday, February 23, 2013 6:40:52 PM UTC-6, Sean F (F2) wrote:
Try this one!



http://youtu.be/EQw5AjrBjXE



The USA desperately needs more youth pilots. I am starting to work on this a bit and plan on putting some real effort in for the coming years.



Sean