Couldn't Get it Down

On 11 Mar 2004 06:26:20 -0800, (Rick Durden)
wrote:

Just a thought: there's no reason to fly a "stabilized" approach in a
piston engine airplane, that is a jet concept developed for the slow
power response of the early jets.

Good point, however it was Jay's valiant attempt at flying a
stabilized approach that clearly illustrated to him that a landing
wasn't a good idea. (That's not to say that he wouldn't have come to
the same conclusion had he dropped it in.)

It's much easier to accurately size up the situation during a
stabilized approach. Of course, I cut my teeth (and a few other
things!) on 727s so YMMV.

-J

Jack Davis
B-737


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Until they resurfaced and reopened runway 10-28 at KSAF last year,
crosswinds were a fact of life, as when things kick up the prevailing
winds are usually out of the west and the other runways form a narrow
"X" (15-33 and 2-20). We usually lost a couple of planes a year to
runway lights and flips.

My hairiest landings were one winter day a few years back when the
winds started at 260@20G28, then 260@28G34, then I decided to do one
more for the heck of it but had to do a long downwind because neither
I nor the tower could see the incoming Lear making opposite traffic;
by the time I got back it was 260@38G44. I did manage to get the nose
cranked over with rudder and sort of hover-taxied down about half of
the 8000' of pavement waiting for a lull, then plunked it down.

I also landed in Amarillo into a gust front leading a huge storm, with
winds 34 gusting 44, 30 degrees off runway heading. The landing
wasn't too bad; the hard part was the taxi to get fuel (and get out of
there as quickly as possible before the storm hit.) The takeoff was
easy; taxi to the right side of the runway and point into the wind.
The runway was 300 feet wide and the stall horn was blaring while I
was sitting still. ;-)

Both were in a Cirrus, which in addition to its other qualities turns
out to be a wonderful airplane for crosswinds. (The demonstrated
crosswind component is 20 knots; I called a friend at the company to
mention that it was a tad conservative, and his response was "yeah, we
know, but we didn't want to print the real number in case some idiot
tried it.")

You were right, you made the right decision, and all that stuff... But as a
somewhat fanatical striped bass (or rockfish, if you are from the
Cheasapeake) fisherman I'd have asked you to do a low pass so I could jump.


The wind and waves turned out to be too much for the tuna charter as it turned
out. They cancelled that and went out less far for bluefish or something.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

Jay, I thought your were joking about the boat.

Mike Z

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:n204c.8060$YG.71790@attbi_s01...
Please forward photo of yacht!

Actually, I've got some pix if you'd like. He treated us to a day on the
lake last summer.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Great writing!
I experienced a side landing once back in my training and I wasn't even
flying at that time. My instructor misjudged on how much she needed to yaw
and we landed sideway. I am warning you that you do not want to feel the
pain in your neck as the plane impact the runway sideway. The instructor's
quick actions after the impact saved our butt.

That's interesting as regards the comments on a stabilized approach. I've
not used one for years. What I DO use is a target for short final. I have
an airspeed/configuration target I work towards based on weight
and conditions. I then use constant gradual speed reductions and
and increase in flaps so that I'm on my target on short final.

The exception to this is power off landings where I'm using best
glide speed.


"Rick Durden" wrote in message
m...
Jay,

Welcome to spring, when they take down the wind socks and put up the
log chains and wind shear is a frequently used noun.

It's also a good time to point out that it's perfectly legal to land
on a taxiway, and sometimes a good idea when it's pointed into the
wind and the runway isn't.

Just a thought: there's no reason to fly a "stabilized" approach in a
piston engine airplane, that is a jet concept developed for the slow
power response of the early jets. It should not be applied rigidly to
piston pounders as it's rarely wise to fly a constant airspeed
throughout the approach (you'll die of old age first g). There's a
good article on it in the Feb or March issue of IFR magazine.

Hope all is well.

Warmest regards,
Rick

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
No, this is not a story about Viagra's side effects... ;-)

Amazingly, today dawned clear and sunny -- against all predictions.
Thus,
once the kids were at school, it was time for us to head to our favorite
"$100 Breakfast" in Muscatine, IA.

Conditions seemed perfect, but I knew some weather was predicted to move
in
later. Thus, a call to flight service was in order, even though
Muscatine
was just 20 minutes away. (It's always a good idea to check on GW's
location during this election season, too...) To my surprise, Ft Dodge
Flight Service was calling the surface winds at 15, gusts to 20, from
180.
We had just walked our daughter to school, and the winds were light --
but
obviously there was a big low pressure center moving in from the north,
causing an increasing southerly flow.

Still, the winds were right down the runway in Iowa City, and 60 degrees
off
of runway 24 in Muscatine. So, I figure it would be a piece of cake...

We departed normally, lightly loaded with just the two of us and
climbing
out at better than 1400 feet per minute. Immediately we were buffeted
by
moderate turbulence, but nothing we hadn't felt a hundred times before.
In
a few minutes we were enjoying the smooth ride at 3000 feet.

As we proceeded southeasterly, we noticed our flight path across the
ground
was quite different from the direction we were facing. The crab angle
was
severe, and incredibly our ground speed during the climb out was just 54
knots! Even after we leveled off we were seeing just 95 knots -- a
quartering headwind at 45+ knots!

Still, the ride above the haze layer was smooth, and we weren't going
far.
As we enjoyed the ride I tuned in Muscatine's AWOS.

"...wind 180 at 19, gusts to 27..." Uh-oh. This could be more
interesting than I anticipated.

Coming from the north we'd have to cross over the field to enter the
downwind for 24, and the wind would be pushing us in toward the runway
at a
good clip. Thus, I set up to cross over just southwest of the field,
and
entered a much wider than normal downwind.

I started to get an inkling of what was in store when I had to maintain
a 45
degree crab angle in order to fly a parallel downwind. After we
descended
to pattern altitude the turbulence had returned with a vengeance,
including
some rare "triples" -- the kind of air that bumps you up and down three
times in rapid succession, almost as if you were hitting multiple
railroad
tracks in a car at high speed.

Mary had grown strangely quiet, and was rocking from side to side in
sync
with the wings rocking, in a vain effort to maintain her upright
balance.
I was so busy trying to keep from being blown back over the airport on
downwind that I hadn't noticed the violent rocking until I saw her
motions
out of the corner of my eye.

This *was* going to be interesting.

Turning onto base, it seemed like the plane didn't want to turn or
descend.
I'd get Atlas set up for a 90 knot descent, only to be tossed up and see
my
air speed erode to 75. Then, after correcting a moment later we'd be
instantly at 100. A stabilized approach was simply out of the question.

Turning onto final was like turning a boat. With the wind trying to
push me
past the runway, the instinct was to steepen the bank angle -- but a
thousand landings had taught me not to over-do that! Thus, my turn to
final was an exercise in will, banking, over-banking, correcting,
banking,
over-banking, correcting. Instead of the usual graceful, sweeping turn
onto
final, it was a series of 20 little banks, all connected together by my
furrowed brow.

I was really working now.

Sliding down on final, keeping my airspeed at 100 knots, sort of, I
realized
that I was having to hold an impossible left crab angle to maintain
runway
alignment. Kicking in right rudder, and opposite aileron helped, but
soon
the runway was drifting to the left in the windshield again.

More aileron, more right rudder, more crab...

Now I was *really* working. Curtly I commanded Mary to turn the cabin
heat
down. It was already off.

Soon I had full rudder deflection, full opposite aileron, AND a 45
degree
crab. At last the runway was remaining steadfastly in front of me --
but I
realized that if I were to touchdown in that crab, my A&P would be
making
yet another upgrade to his 42 foot yacht...

Worse, since I was already at full deflection on the rudder AND aileron,
there was nothing left with which to kick out! In a flash a greasy
breakfast served by an ugly waitress didn't seem like a valid reason to
fly
anymore. Applying full power and releasing my aileron and rudder, I was
astounded to see the runway literally *fly* away from us -- sideways!

For the first time in I can't remember when, I executed a go-around...

Once safely at altitude and out of the bumps, I realized my hands were
hurting. I slowly pried them off of the yoke, marveling at how
different
this trip -- taken so many times before -- could suddenly change for the
worse. I remarked to Mary how much "fun" this was, but she had another
term
for it.

Needless to say, the trip back to Iowa City was quick. And even with
the
wind directly on the nose, I had one helluva time making an acceptable
landing. What a day...

Once the plane was in the hangar, we sat and enjoyed the sunny skies.
No
one driving by could possibly have a clue how treacherous that pretty
blue
sky was today...

Jay, I thought your were joking about the boat.

Nope -- dead serious.

It's the biggest boat you'll ever see on an inland lake. Hell, it would be
considered good sized on the Great Lakes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I experienced a side landing once back in my training and I wasn't even
flying at that time. My instructor misjudged on how much she needed to yaw
and we landed sideway. I am warning you that you do not want to feel the
pain in your neck as the plane impact the runway sideway. The instructor's
quick actions after the impact saved our butt.

As a newly minted pilot I managed to royally screw up a couple of crosswind
landings. One in particular stands out in my mind:

We were in a rental Cherokee 140, and the winds were gusty and howling
nearly as bad as yesterday. We were landing in Rockford, IL -- Class D, big
runways, plenty of room for meandering off the center line. Shoulda been a
piece of cake.

Well, I meandered all right. At touchdown I had full left rudder, and full
right aileron in -- a perfect set up for a perfect crosswind landing.
Unfortunately I forgot to neutralize the rudder as the nosewheel touched
down.

In a Cherokee, the rudder is directly connected to the nosewheel. Our
sudden and abrupt veer to the left was as violent as it was surprising.

Damn near took out the runway lights on a 200 foot wide runway. Now *that*
would have been embarrassing!

Mary still brings *that* one up, whenever I needle her about a bad landing!
:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Dave Katz" wrote

My hairiest landings were one winter day a few years back when the
winds started at 260@20G28, then 260@28G34, then I decided to do one
more for the heck of it but had to do a long downwind because neither
I nor the tower could see the incoming Lear making opposite traffic;
by the time I got back it was 260@38G44.

Dave, I couldn't get these links to work. Any ideas?
--
Jim (ducking g) in NC


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"Morgans" writes:

Dave, I couldn't get these links to work. Any ideas?
--
Jim (ducking g) in NC

They're links to fake web sites, asking you to give me all of your
financial information or your rec.aviation.piloting account will be
disabled. ;-)