Couldn't Get it Down

On 11 Mar 2004 06:26:20 -0800, (Rick Durden)
wrote:

Just a thought: there's no reason to fly a "stabilized" approach in a
piston engine airplane, that is a jet concept developed for the slow
power response of the early jets.

Good point, however it was Jay's valiant attempt at flying a
stabilized approach that clearly illustrated to him that a landing
wasn't a good idea. (That's not to say that he wouldn't have come to
the same conclusion had he dropped it in.)

It's much easier to accurately size up the situation during a
stabilized approach. Of course, I cut my teeth (and a few other
things!) on 727s so YMMV.

-J

Jack Davis
B-737


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Jack Davis wrote:

It's much easier to accurately size up the situation during a
stabilized approach.

For the most part, that's correct, and I never use a crab approach in the Maule,
but it is a fact that the wind will frequently be gentler below 50' AGL. If you
abandon the approach at 100' or so, you'll never find this out.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

For the most part, that's correct, and I never use a crab approach in the
Maule,
but it is a fact that the wind will frequently be gentler below 50' AGL.
If you
abandon the approach at 100' or so, you'll never find this out.

Very true. There were many approaches into little Sylvania Field (C89)
where I was just *barely* able to maintain runway alignment, until about 30
feet off of the runway. Then things routinely would smooth out nicely.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

That's interesting as regards the comments on a stabilized approach. I've
not used one for years. What I DO use is a target for short final. I have
an airspeed/configuration target I work towards based on weight
and conditions. I then use constant gradual speed reductions and
and increase in flaps so that I'm on my target on short final.

The exception to this is power off landings where I'm using best
glide speed.


"Rick Durden" wrote in message
m...
Jay,

Welcome to spring, when they take down the wind socks and put up the
log chains and wind shear is a frequently used noun.

It's also a good time to point out that it's perfectly legal to land
on a taxiway, and sometimes a good idea when it's pointed into the
wind and the runway isn't.

Just a thought: there's no reason to fly a "stabilized" approach in a
piston engine airplane, that is a jet concept developed for the slow
power response of the early jets. It should not be applied rigidly to
piston pounders as it's rarely wise to fly a constant airspeed
throughout the approach (you'll die of old age first g). There's a
good article on it in the Feb or March issue of IFR magazine.

Hope all is well.

Warmest regards,
Rick

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
No, this is not a story about Viagra's side effects... ;-)

Amazingly, today dawned clear and sunny -- against all predictions.
Thus,
once the kids were at school, it was time for us to head to our favorite
"$100 Breakfast" in Muscatine, IA.

Conditions seemed perfect, but I knew some weather was predicted to move
in
later. Thus, a call to flight service was in order, even though
Muscatine
was just 20 minutes away. (It's always a good idea to check on GW's
location during this election season, too...) To my surprise, Ft Dodge
Flight Service was calling the surface winds at 15, gusts to 20, from
180.
We had just walked our daughter to school, and the winds were light --
but
obviously there was a big low pressure center moving in from the north,
causing an increasing southerly flow.

Still, the winds were right down the runway in Iowa City, and 60 degrees
off
of runway 24 in Muscatine. So, I figure it would be a piece of cake...

We departed normally, lightly loaded with just the two of us and
climbing
out at better than 1400 feet per minute. Immediately we were buffeted
by
moderate turbulence, but nothing we hadn't felt a hundred times before.
In
a few minutes we were enjoying the smooth ride at 3000 feet.

As we proceeded southeasterly, we noticed our flight path across the
ground
was quite different from the direction we were facing. The crab angle
was
severe, and incredibly our ground speed during the climb out was just 54
knots! Even after we leveled off we were seeing just 95 knots -- a
quartering headwind at 45+ knots!

Still, the ride above the haze layer was smooth, and we weren't going
far.
As we enjoyed the ride I tuned in Muscatine's AWOS.

"...wind 180 at 19, gusts to 27..." Uh-oh. This could be more
interesting than I anticipated.

Coming from the north we'd have to cross over the field to enter the
downwind for 24, and the wind would be pushing us in toward the runway
at a
good clip. Thus, I set up to cross over just southwest of the field,
and
entered a much wider than normal downwind.

I started to get an inkling of what was in store when I had to maintain
a 45
degree crab angle in order to fly a parallel downwind. After we
descended
to pattern altitude the turbulence had returned with a vengeance,
including
some rare "triples" -- the kind of air that bumps you up and down three
times in rapid succession, almost as if you were hitting multiple
railroad
tracks in a car at high speed.

Mary had grown strangely quiet, and was rocking from side to side in
sync
with the wings rocking, in a vain effort to maintain her upright
balance.
I was so busy trying to keep from being blown back over the airport on
downwind that I hadn't noticed the violent rocking until I saw her
motions
out of the corner of my eye.

This *was* going to be interesting.

Turning onto base, it seemed like the plane didn't want to turn or
descend.
I'd get Atlas set up for a 90 knot descent, only to be tossed up and see
my
air speed erode to 75. Then, after correcting a moment later we'd be
instantly at 100. A stabilized approach was simply out of the question.

Turning onto final was like turning a boat. With the wind trying to
push me
past the runway, the instinct was to steepen the bank angle -- but a
thousand landings had taught me not to over-do that! Thus, my turn to
final was an exercise in will, banking, over-banking, correcting,
banking,
over-banking, correcting. Instead of the usual graceful, sweeping turn
onto
final, it was a series of 20 little banks, all connected together by my
furrowed brow.

I was really working now.

Sliding down on final, keeping my airspeed at 100 knots, sort of, I
realized
that I was having to hold an impossible left crab angle to maintain
runway
alignment. Kicking in right rudder, and opposite aileron helped, but
soon
the runway was drifting to the left in the windshield again.

More aileron, more right rudder, more crab...

Now I was *really* working. Curtly I commanded Mary to turn the cabin
heat
down. It was already off.

Soon I had full rudder deflection, full opposite aileron, AND a 45
degree
crab. At last the runway was remaining steadfastly in front of me --
but I
realized that if I were to touchdown in that crab, my A&P would be
making
yet another upgrade to his 42 foot yacht...

Worse, since I was already at full deflection on the rudder AND aileron,
there was nothing left with which to kick out! In a flash a greasy
breakfast served by an ugly waitress didn't seem like a valid reason to
fly
anymore. Applying full power and releasing my aileron and rudder, I was
astounded to see the runway literally *fly* away from us -- sideways!

For the first time in I can't remember when, I executed a go-around...

Once safely at altitude and out of the bumps, I realized my hands were
hurting. I slowly pried them off of the yoke, marveling at how
different
this trip -- taken so many times before -- could suddenly change for the
worse. I remarked to Mary how much "fun" this was, but she had another
term
for it.

Needless to say, the trip back to Iowa City was quick. And even with
the
wind directly on the nose, I had one helluva time making an acceptable
landing. What a day...

Once the plane was in the hangar, we sat and enjoyed the sunny skies.
No
one driving by could possibly have a clue how treacherous that pretty
blue
sky was today...

Please forward photo of yacht!

Mike Z


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
HUGE SNIP--


but I
realized that if I were to touchdown in that crab, my A&P would be making
yet another upgrade to his 42 foot yacht...


Rest of good story snipped

Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Please forward photo of yacht!

Actually, I've got some pix if you'd like. He treated us to a day on the
lake last summer.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay, I thought your were joking about the boat.

Mike Z

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:n204c.8060$YG.71790@attbi_s01...
Please forward photo of yacht!

Actually, I've got some pix if you'd like. He treated us to a day on the
lake last summer.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay, I thought your were joking about the boat.

Nope -- dead serious.

It's the biggest boat you'll ever see on an inland lake. Hell, it would be
considered good sized on the Great Lakes.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

Jay, I thought your were joking about the boat.

Nope -- dead serious.

It's the biggest boat you'll ever see on an inland lake. Hell, it would
be considered good sized on the Great Lakes.

I smell a new website: The toys my plane helped my A&P to buy.

- Andrew

There are three kinds of landings - those that are work, those that
are a piece of cake, and those that are a piece of work.
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.



"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:x4Q3c.2179$YG.23444@attbi_s01...
No, this is not a story about Viagra's side effects... ;-)

Amazingly, today dawned clear and sunny -- against all predictions. Thus,
once the kids were at school, it was time for us to head to our favorite
"$100 Breakfast" in Muscatine, IA.

Conditions seemed perfect, but I knew some weather was predicted to move in
later. Thus, a call to flight service was in order, even though Muscatine
was just 20 minutes away. (It's always a good idea to check on GW's
location during this election season, too...) To my surprise, Ft Dodge
Flight Service was calling the surface winds at 15, gusts to 20, from 180.
We had just walked our daughter to school, and the winds were light -- but
obviously there was a big low pressure center moving in from the north,
causing an increasing southerly flow.

Still, the winds were right down the runway in Iowa City, and 60 degrees off
of runway 24 in Muscatine. So, I figure it would be a piece of cake...

We departed normally, lightly loaded with just the two of us and climbing
out at better than 1400 feet per minute. Immediately we were buffeted by
moderate turbulence, but nothing we hadn't felt a hundred times before. In
a few minutes we were enjoying the smooth ride at 3000 feet.

As we proceeded southeasterly, we noticed our flight path across the ground
was quite different from the direction we were facing. The crab angle was
severe, and incredibly our ground speed during the climb out was just 54
knots! Even after we leveled off we were seeing just 95 knots -- a
quartering headwind at 45+ knots!

Still, the ride above the haze layer was smooth, and we weren't going far.
As we enjoyed the ride I tuned in Muscatine's AWOS.

"...wind 180 at 19, gusts to 27..." Uh-oh. This could be more
interesting than I anticipated.

Coming from the north we'd have to cross over the field to enter the
downwind for 24, and the wind would be pushing us in toward the runway at a
good clip. Thus, I set up to cross over just southwest of the field, and
entered a much wider than normal downwind.

I started to get an inkling of what was in store when I had to maintain a 45
degree crab angle in order to fly a parallel downwind. After we descended
to pattern altitude the turbulence had returned with a vengeance, including
some rare "triples" -- the kind of air that bumps you up and down three
times in rapid succession, almost as if you were hitting multiple railroad
tracks in a car at high speed.

Mary had grown strangely quiet, and was rocking from side to side in sync
with the wings rocking, in a vain effort to maintain her upright balance.
I was so busy trying to keep from being blown back over the airport on
downwind that I hadn't noticed the violent rocking until I saw her motions
out of the corner of my eye.

This *was* going to be interesting.

Turning onto base, it seemed like the plane didn't want to turn or descend.
I'd get Atlas set up for a 90 knot descent, only to be tossed up and see my
air speed erode to 75. Then, after correcting a moment later we'd be
instantly at 100. A stabilized approach was simply out of the question.

Turning onto final was like turning a boat. With the wind trying to push me
past the runway, the instinct was to steepen the bank angle -- but a
thousand landings had taught me not to over-do that! Thus, my turn to
final was an exercise in will, banking, over-banking, correcting, banking,
over-banking, correcting. Instead of the usual graceful, sweeping turn onto
final, it was a series of 20 little banks, all connected together by my
furrowed brow.

I was really working now.

Sliding down on final, keeping my airspeed at 100 knots, sort of, I realized
that I was having to hold an impossible left crab angle to maintain runway
alignment. Kicking in right rudder, and opposite aileron helped, but soon
the runway was drifting to the left in the windshield again.

More aileron, more right rudder, more crab...

Now I was *really* working. Curtly I commanded Mary to turn the cabin heat
down. It was already off.

Soon I had full rudder deflection, full opposite aileron, AND a 45 degree
crab. At last the runway was remaining steadfastly in front of me -- but I
realized that if I were to touchdown in that crab, my A&P would be making
yet another upgrade to his 42 foot yacht...

Worse, since I was already at full deflection on the rudder AND aileron,
there was nothing left with which to kick out! In a flash a greasy
breakfast served by an ugly waitress didn't seem like a valid reason to fly
anymore. Applying full power and releasing my aileron and rudder, I was
astounded to see the runway literally *fly* away from us -- sideways!

For the first time in I can't remember when, I executed a go-around...

Once safely at altitude and out of the bumps, I realized my hands were
hurting. I slowly pried them off of the yoke, marveling at how different
this trip -- taken so many times before -- could suddenly change for the
worse. I remarked to Mary how much "fun" this was, but she had another term
for it.

Needless to say, the trip back to Iowa City was quick. And even with the
wind directly on the nose, I had one helluva time making an acceptable
landing. What a day...

Once the plane was in the hangar, we sat and enjoyed the sunny skies. No
one driving by could possibly have a clue how treacherous that pretty blue
sky was today...