Folding wings

"Chris W" wrote in message
news:0ILNd.1855$53.928@lakeread07...
mindenpilot wrote:

A much better idea is a flying garage Just get a small car and a
DC-3, and you have the best of both worlds

Most twins and some larger singles could handle the weight of
a motorcycle and perhaps even a passenger. Getting it through
the door might be a problem on many models.

For example, my old 1988 Kawasaki 750 Ninja is a tad bit over
500 pounds wet and my 1980 KZ750 was around 500 pounds dry.
Note that these are fairly large motorcycles and a modern 500
or 250 would be even lighter. My stripped down 1973 RD350 Yamaha
probably tops out at 200 pounds or less wet.

A custom design retaining system and removal of the seats
would even make the weight and balance mostly happy. Probably
even easy enough for one person to load. A lot depends on
the size of the motorcycle and how well the design handles the
weight. We'll pretend we have doors big enough to handle it.

The FAA might have something to say about having several gallons
of gasoline in the cockpit and removing the seats or replacing them
as needed. All that is up to the engineers and the lawyers.
I'm just the idea man.

To my knowledge there's only one tricycle CAR in the world (it's
British).

http://www.3wheelers.com/azlist1.html


Wow. I had no idea there were that many nut cases in the world!

In all fairness, many of these barely qualify as golf carts, let alone
cars. But I am surprised that so many people have made three-wheeled
vehicles with the intention of driving them on the same roads the
hummer uses.

Heck, why not just taxi an RV-3 on the streets and call it a done deal?

Jose
--
Nothing is more powerful than a commercial interest.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"CryptWolf" wrote

Most twins and some larger singles could handle the weight of
a motorcycle and perhaps even a passenger. Getting it through
the door might be a problem on many models.

There you go! Much better solution than an aircar, made of unobtanium!

Some of the small scooters are smaller, and lighter, which should help
loading singlehanded.

The way around the door size issue and the seats, ect, is to go
experimental. You can do pretty much as you please, modification wise. A
number of designs could handle the loading and weight requirements.
--
Jim in NC

"Hank Rausch" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here's something like what you are looking for--a roadable vehicle that
can fly. It is a parachute conversion for a Honda Reflex motorcycle.



http://www.ultralightnews.com/airven.../flitebike.htm


Except he could easily do the trip twice as fast in a car, as with a
parachute and motorcycle. The wind limitations of a powered chute could
eliminate 50% or more of the days that would otherwise be flyable.
--
Jim in NC

"Brian" wrote in message
oups.com...
I wonder how many times the Wright Brothers heard this statement or
something like it.

I agree the challenges are great and his statement ignores many
engineering issues that are required for adding additional weight to
the airplane (i.e. Additional wing area required, Addtional structure
required, the Addtional weight of these additional structures) I can
come up with many well reasoned and logical reasons why it won't work.

I think the Wright brothers were probably in the same boat when they
started, But their greatest acheivement was their ability to solve
difficult problems and question and attempt to prove or disprove all
the known issues. They started off with little understanding of
engineering and design (related to aircraft) and were clueless as to
the what it would take to acheive flight, So they taught themselves in
a way that no one else had and as result were successful.

I remember when the Rubik's cube 1st came out I had no Idea how it
could do what they it did. After I had disassembled it it seemed easy.

I am careful to tell people what the can't do, while most will fail. A
few are just clueless and crazy enought to be succesfull.

Brian


My thoughts exactly. I was prepared for the flames, but this was my
underlying belief.
BTW, I am an exceptionally accomplished engineer, which is perhaps why some
things seem more possible to me than to others.

Once more, I am not proposing anything pretty or elegant at first, just
something that will work.
Hell, a mini-MAX will work right now (aside from street-legal issues).
It will fly, the wings come off in 10 minutes, then you could taxi it.

Let's make it more elegant from there...

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

Whatever the contraption, could you take it around an obstacle course? To
my knowledge there's only one tricycle CAR in the world (it's British).
There's a reason.

I suppose it doesn't HAVE to be a car.
Honda makes a GoldWing trike that works just fine.

I'm pretty sure it's already been done. But there's a bit more to it than
just taxiing on the street. It needs to be safe on the street.

I agree. This is where I think the majority of ingenuity and design would
be required.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

"Corky Scott" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:13:56 GMT, Jose
wrote:

...Add some turn signals, brake lights, etc, and that's it...

Whatever the contraption, could you take it around an obstacle course?
To my knowledge there's only one tricycle CAR in the world (it's
British). There's a reason.

Hmmm, a small ATV with a detachable powered chute? You won't get
anywhere fast but a big enough chute might carry the thing.

Corky Scott

Not quite what I had in mind, but check this out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

"Chris W" wrote in message
news:0ILNd.1855$53.928@lakeread07...
Just for fun, lets explore this idea some more. Obviously weight is the
biggest problem or you could just mount a folding wing, tail feathers and
prop to your Honda. The weight of a transmission to drive the wheels
directly alone would probably add to much weight to be practical. So you
suggested driving it with the prop with some kind of cage around it. If
you are going to put a cage around the prop, you might as well make it
useful. Make it a pusher prop with a ducted fan instead of a normal
simple prop. I think some home builder is working on a design like that.
Second have you ever noticed how amazingly horrible the ground handling of
every airplane I have ever seen is? To make it road worthy, even if just
for non-highway use, you would have to have a more car like suspension.
That of course is going to add a significant amount of weight to the
machine. One of the reasons airplanes are so unstable on the ground is,
by necessity the main wheels need to be pretty close to the CG. I'm not
sure you could get good ground handling with out moving the main wheels
further from the CG. Tires alone are going add a huge amount of weight,
if you try and drive around on typical airplane tires you are going to be
replacing them every time you turn around. Finally brakes, you are never
going to drive a vehicle like this on the road with out a much better
brake system than most airplanes have, and again that is going to add a
lot of weight. As another poster so rudely put it, no you can't make up
for weight with more horse power. Obviously it can and has been done, but
I doubt you will ever see a flying car that can drive or fly very good at
all.

I agree with all of your points.
Additionally, I think acceleration would be an issue.
If you were stopped at a red light, you might get some horns honked at you
unless you could start moving right away.
My plane has some lag before it starts moving.

It seems that we have identified about five areas to focus on:
1. propulsion (caged prop, pusher prop, ducted fan)
2. ground handling
3. tires
4. brakes
5. acceleration

I don't think this is a comprehensive list, but for the sake of argument,
let's say that it is.
The problem now becomes a whole lot more like engineering problem solving
than pie-in-the-sky.

I'll have to think about each of these a bit before trying to attempt
possible solutions, but now I have some things to think about.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Hank Rausch" wrote in message
oups.com...
Here's something like what you are looking for--a roadable vehicle that
can fly. It is a parachute conversion for a Honda Reflex motorcycle.



http://www.ultralightnews.com/airven.../flitebike.htm


Except he could easily do the trip twice as fast in a car, as with a
parachute and motorcycle. The wind limitations of a powered chute could
eliminate 50% or more of the days that would otherwise be flyable.
--
Jim in NC



That is absolutely true.
However, it won't stop one person who actually *wants* to do it.
How else could you explain people who pay money to glide, or do hang-glide,
etc.
Even though this technology is not what I was envisioning, it's a start, and
it may or may not evolve.

If someone came up with some extremely inefficient vehicle that does what
I've proposed, *I* would probably try it.
And, it would probably be improved upon as time went on.
This is a LOOONG way from not being possible.

Adam
N7966L
Beech Super III

"mindenpilot" wrote

Not quite what I had in mind, but check this out:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...sPageName=WDVW

Just curious, but did you notice the cruise speed, and the maximum wind
speed at launch time?
--
Jim in NC