ASG-29E vs. JS-1Jet Sustainer

At 09:01 29 January 2015, Jack Russell wrote:
Of course you could also get your order in for the new Ventus 3?

What is known about the Ventus 3? 15/18 or 18/21m? Anything
else?

John Galloway

Vaporware to slow down the sale of 29s and JS1s ;-)

Just like the Duckhawk and the JS1 prove, it will be a miracle if Shempp Hirth is able to produce a significant performance increase over the 29. Hype is a curious, highly predictable thing. The JS1 in 18 and the Duckhawk in 15 are very good gliders but they fell far short of being the game changers they were innitially advertised as being. The other gliders are still very much competitive. In fact the 29 has never lost the World Championship I believe. Now here comes the rumored V3 and many are touting it to be a "game changer!" Fact is that the 29 is "still" the standard by which all other 18m gliders are measured. It is going to be exceedingly difficult (and expensive) to significantly exceed it.

Furthermore, if a clearly superior 18 meter glider arrives, the 18m class (long strong due to perceived stability) will fracture a bit. Many will just stop competing in an uneven event rather than buy a new glider.

Once something new arrives which has a clear advantage, maybe I'll get in line :-). But I'm not that worried about it. It might be appealing just to start a "legacy" 18 meter class and exclude the V3. I like racing (well, OLCing) 29s and JS1s just fine.

At 14:46 29 January 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Vaporware to slow down the sale of 29s and JS1s ;-)

Just like the Duckhawk and the JS1 prove, it will be a miracle if Shempp
Hi=
rth is able to produce a significant performance increase over the 29.
Hyp=
e is a curious, highly predictable thing. The JS1 in 18 and the Duckhawk
i=
n 15 are very good gliders but they fell far short of being the game
change=
rs they were innitially advertised as being. The other gliders are still
v=
ery much competitive. In fact the 29 has never lost the World
Championship=
I believe. Now here comes the rumored V3 and many are touting it to
be a
=
"game changer!" Fact is that the 29 is "still" the standard by which all
o=
ther 18m gliders are measured. It is going to be exceedingly difficult
(an=
d expensive) to significantly exceed it.

Furthermore, if a clearly superior 18 meter glider arrives, the 18m class
(=
long strong due to perceived stability) will fracture a bit. Many will
jus=
t stop competing in an uneven event rather than buy a new glider.

Once something new arrives which has a clear advantage, maybe I'll get
in
l=
ine :-). But I'm not that worried about it. It might be appealing just
to=
start a "legacy" 18 meter class and exclude the V3. I like racing (well,
O=
LCing) 29s and JS1s just fine.



I merely suggested it as an option. We shall see what the future will
bring.

The V3 is vaporware? Well that saves me wondering about going to
Aero 2015 for the launch (as mentioned in the latest S&G).

As an aside, I think the Duckhawk (and the Diana) will be seen as
game changers in the long term by showing the potential for gliders
if they can be built by advanced construction methods allowing for
very low weights, high aspect ratios and wide wing loading ranges -
provided they manage to get EASA (and US equivalent) certified.

John Galloway



At 14:46 29 January 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
Vaporware to slow down the sale of 29s and JS1s ;-)

Just like the Duckhawk and the JS1 prove, it will be a miracle if
Shempp
Hi=
rth is able to produce a significant performance increase over the
29.
Hyp=
e is a curious, highly predictable thing. The JS1 in 18 and the
Duckhawk
i=
n 15 are very good gliders but they fell far short of being the game
change=
rs they were innitially advertised as being. The other gliders are
still
v=
ery much competitive. In fact the 29 has never lost the World
Championship=
I believe. Now here comes the rumored V3 and many are touting
it to be a
=
"game changer!" Fact is that the 29 is "still" the standard by
which all
o=
ther 18m gliders are measured. It is going to be exceedingly
difficult
(an=
d expensive) to significantly exceed it.

Furthermore, if a clearly superior 18 meter glider arrives, the 18m
class
(=
long strong due to perceived stability) will fracture a bit. Many will
jus=
t stop competing in an uneven event rather than buy a new glider.

Once something new arrives which has a clear advantage, maybe
I'll get in
l=
ine :-). But I'm not that worried about it. It might be appealing
just
to=
start a "legacy" 18 meter class and exclude the V3. I like racing
(well,
O=
LCing) 29s and JS1s just fine.

Its Vaporware until it wins a few worlds. And Hype!

I agree PrePreg is the what is needed.

Some pilots will not be able to resist doing beat-ups / flyby's /restarts/ self launch/ or whatever, but unless the remarkable noise issue can be solved, the airport / gliderport neighbors will raise hell, and either close the gliderport, or cause regulations to ban their use.

Anyone with any interest, better investigate the noise issue before purchasing.

Tom Knauff

On Friday, January 30, 2015 at 7:36:28 PM UTC, Tom Knauff wrote:
Some pilots will not be able to resist doing beat-ups / flyby's /restarts/ self launch/ or whatever, but unless the remarkable noise issue can be solved, the airport / gliderport neighbors will raise hell, and either close the gliderport, or cause regulations to ban their use.

Anyone with any interest, better investigate the noise issue before purchasing.

Tom Knauff

Jets are very noisy, albeit directionally so in flight, there's not much left to investigate about that. It's more a question pilots and airfields reaching an understanding about their use. Surely an airfield management or gliding club chief instructor can ban jet glider self launches (which would be outwith the glider's TC any), unauthorised powered low passes and/or use within a specified distance from the airfield? That is what I am planning to self-impose if and when I get my turbine installed. It would be a sorry state of affairs if an airfield couldn't keep that level of discipline.

John Galloway (UK)

I remember a post some time back that began with the proclamation "since the Ventus 2 is no longer competitive" then shortly thereafter at the USA 18 meter Nations everyone got their butt kicked by two Ventus 2s....Sorry, I couldn't resist ;-)

Two words: Doug Jacobs
Two mo Rick Walters
They would probably have been 1-2 if their wings were clipped.
Doug is Doug and Rick is extroidinarily good as well as a master of Minden wave. It was a pleasure to watch.
The Discus 2 is clearly a great glider. I'm not sure why it does not seem to be quite equal (or as popular) at the World level. And here comes the V3!