Slider on a ram air parachute

Recently somebody made a comment about my emergency ram air parachute
and whether or not it has a slider to to slow deployment. I checked with
my rigger and jump instructor and here's what he said:

Your parachute has a slider. The maximum airspeed for slider-off deployments is 65 mph. In an aircraft emergency, you will almost always be deploying at a higher speed than that, so the slider is absolutely necessary. Deploying slider-off at high speed can damage the gear and maybe the jumper. Your parachute is designed to open as fast as possible without causing damage. It should take about 3 seconds/300 feet for it to open in most situations. Exactly the same as a round parachute of roughly equivalent area.


--
Dan Marotta

On Monday, 22 June 2015 17:59:25 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Recently somebody made a comment about my emergency ram air
parachute and whether or not it has a slider to to slow deployment.*
I checked with my rigger and jump instructor and here's what he
said:



Your parachute has a slider. The maximum airspeed for slider-off deployments is 65 mph. In an aircraft emergency, you will almost always be deploying at a higher speed than that, so the slider is absolutely necessary. Deploying slider-off at high speed can damage the gear and maybe the jumper.. Your parachute is designed to open as fast as possible without causing damage. It should take about 3 seconds/300 feet for it to open in most situations. Exactly the same as a round parachute of roughly equivalent area.



--

Dan Marotta

I'd agree with that. That is why an emergency chute makes more sense.

http://www.parachuteshop.com/Softie%...The_Preserve_1

Specifications:
Nominal Diameter - 24 feet
Maximum Open Diameter- 14 feet
Weight - 7 Pounds
Maximum Pilot Weight- 220 Pounds
Maximum Deployment Speed- 172 MPH
Rate of Descent for 200 Pounds - 16 FPS
Steerable

Notice the higher deployment speed.

The other one to watch is pulling at high altitude. It's a TAS limit.

Op maandag 22 juni 2015 19:22:54 UTC+2 schreef Nick:
On Monday, 22 June 2015 17:59:25 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Recently somebody made a comment about my emergency ram air
parachute and whether or not it has a slider to to slow deployment.*
I checked with my rigger and jump instructor and here's what he
said:



Your parachute has a slider. The maximum airspeed for slider-off deployments is 65 mph. In an aircraft emergency, you will almost always be deploying at a higher speed than that, so the slider is absolutely necessary.. Deploying slider-off at high speed can damage the gear and maybe the jumper. Your parachute is designed to open as fast as possible without causing damage. It should take about 3 seconds/300 feet for it to open in most situations. Exactly the same as a round parachute of roughly equivalent area.



--

Dan Marotta

I'd agree with that. That is why an emergency chute makes more sense.

http://www.parachuteshop.com/Softie%...The_Preserve_1

Specifications:
Nominal Diameter - 24 feet
Maximum Open Diameter- 14 feet
Weight - 7 Pounds
Maximum Pilot Weight- 220 Pounds
Maximum Deployment Speed- 172 MPH
Rate of Descent for 200 Pounds - 16 FPS
Steerable

Notice the higher deployment speed.

The other one to watch is pulling at high altitude. It's a TAS limit.
Unless you're going transsonic (flutter at 45000 ft?), it's an IAS or rather an EAS limit.

It appears you misread what my rigger said. He said maximum deployment
speed *WITHOUT* a slider is 65 kts. I have a slider and I believe my
max opening speed is 150 kts. I have jumped with a similar chute and am
familiar with its flight characteristics which are, believe me, MUCH
better than a round chute with which I've only parasailed during AF
flight training. Given the generally high winds where I fly and the
rugged terrain, I'll take the higher forward speed and much higher
maneuvering abilities of my ram air chute to any round or conical canopy.

On 6/22/2015 11:22 AM, Nick wrote:
On Monday, 22 June 2015 17:59:25 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Recently somebody made a comment about my emergency ram air
parachute and whether or not it has a slider to to slow deployment.
I checked with my rigger and jump instructor and here's what he
said:



Your parachute has a slider. The maximum airspeed for slider-off deployments is 65 mph. In an aircraft emergency, you will almost always be deploying at a higher speed than that, so the slider is absolutely necessary. Deploying slider-off at high speed can damage the gear and maybe the jumper. Your parachute is designed to open as fast as possible without causing damage. It should take about 3 seconds/300 feet for it to open in most situations. Exactly the same as a round parachute of roughly equivalent area.



--

Dan Marotta
I'd agree with that. That is why an emergency chute makes more sense.

http://www.parachuteshop.com/Softie%...The_Preserve_1

Specifications:
Nominal Diameter - 24 feet
Maximum Open Diameter- 14 feet
Weight - 7 Pounds
Maximum Pilot Weight- 220 Pounds
Maximum Deployment Speed- 172 MPH
Rate of Descent for 200 Pounds - 16 FPS
Steerable

Notice the higher deployment speed.

The other one to watch is pulling at high altitude. It's a TAS limit.

--
Dan Marotta

On Monday, 22 June 2015 17:59:25 UTC+1, Dan Marotta wrote:
Recently somebody made a comment about my emergency ram air
parachute and whether or not it has a slider to to slow deployment.
I checked with my rigger and jump instructor and here's what he
said:



Your parachute has a slider. The maximum airspeed for slider-off deployments is 65 mph. In an aircraft emergency, you will almost always be deploying at a higher speed than that, so the slider is absolutely necessary. Deploying slider-off at high speed can damage the gear and maybe the jumper.. Your parachute is designed to open as fast as possible without causing damage. It should take about 3 seconds/300 feet for it to open in most situations. Exactly the same as a round parachute of roughly equivalent area.



--

Dan Marotta

http://www.strongparachutes.com/emergency/faq.asp

At what altitude should I deploy my emergency parachute?
Deployment time and distance depend on many factors including airspeed. You should plan on pulling the ripcord by 500 feet. This will give you a safety margin. Generally, opening times are 2 to 3 seconds and altitude loss would be 150 feet (45.7m) to 300 feet (91m). A good practice to have is knowing your "decision deck" or that altitude at which you MUST make your decision to either land with the airplane or leave and use your emergency parachute. Always give yourself a margin for unexpected events.

Sliders are only removed from ramair parachutes for fixed object jumping or dopey stunts. Any 'already in the air' deployments will be likely be at a speed that causes damage either to equipment or jumper. Jumper first, the gear can take more then most people. You really don't want to use a nonslider equipped ramair parachute over 50 mph or so.

On Monday, 22 June 2015 19:31:26 UTC+1, wrote:
Sliders are only removed from ramair parachutes for fixed object jumping or dopey stunts. Any 'already in the air' deployments will be likely be at a speed that causes damage either to equipment or jumper. Jumper first, the gear can take more then most people. You really don't want to use a nonslider equipped ramair parachute over 50 mph or so.

Exactly. However, do you want to use a ram air parachute when it deploys slower than an emergency chute?

Ramair reserves with sliders open faster and more reliably then rounds. The only advantage to rounds is price and the difference isn't that great if you are buying new.

On Tuesday, 23 June 2015 07:57:03 UTC+10, wrote:
Ramair reserves with sliders open faster and more reliably then rounds. The only advantage to rounds is price and the difference isn't that great if you are buying new.


I am about to get a new chute and I am very interested in the RamAir system, mainly because I am at the top of allowable weight range and not getting any younger, so a potentially lower vertical velocity is appealing. Whilst I have some skydiving experience, this was under round canopies and some forty years ago. I had a look at the ram Air chute at the parachuteshop.com and found some conflicting advise.

"The P-124 will deliver its max payload at an unbelievably slow 12.1 feet/second, allowing standup landings and requiring no jumper control input at the landing phase."

also

"the P-124 requires no control input from the jumper in the landing phase. Consequently there is no additional training required of aircrew personnel over and above what they receive on current systems."

but it also says this

"Because of the advanced characteristics of these canopy designs, the Sport Aviator model may only be used by individuals who either have ram-air jumping experience such as skydiving, or have received special training in the use and performance of these canopies. "

So I am somewhat confused. Can anyone shed some light on this please.

Thanks

Paul

I've seen the result of using a round canopy in the high desert. I
opted for the controllability of a ram air canopy. It is an emergency
chute with similar opening characteristics to a round canopy. If you're
interested, here's a link to the manual:
http://www.rigginginnovations.com/fi...AviatorMnl.pdf

On 6/22/2015 2:13 PM, Nick wrote:
On Monday, 22 June 2015 19:31:26 UTC+1, wrote:
Sliders are only removed from ramair parachutes for fixed object jumping or dopey stunts. Any 'already in the air' deployments will be likely be at a speed that causes damage either to equipment or jumper. Jumper first, the gear can take more then most people. You really don't want to use a nonslider equipped ramair parachute over 50 mph or so.
Exactly. However, do you want to use a ram air parachute when it deploys slower than an emergency chute?

--
Dan Marotta