Selecting landout airports

I'm a member of a club that has marginal trailers for our ships. Because of this, and the multitude of small airports in our area, I usually just airport hop for cross country flights. We also have unpredictable landout options because 90% of the fields seem to be corn, which at the wrong time of the year are dangerous. So I'm looking for land and tow out airports

I'm mapping out good airports in various directions but have some questions:

1. In a standard class ship what might be the narrowest runway for landing when there are runway edge lights?

2. What about for an unassisted tow from (how narrow with runway lights)

3. Will a wing runner make much of a difference on a narrow strip

4. Turf/grass v asphalt, is one easier than the other given runway edge lights?

It's all about clipping a light.

I've also noticed from satellite views that there is often a grass parallel area located at many asphalt strips, but no way of knowing if these are landable.

Free advice notwithstanding, there's no substitute for *current*
feet-on-the-ground airport information. As for "hard numbers"...

On 5/26/2016 6:52 AM, akiley wrote:
I'm a member of a club that has marginal trailers for our ships. Because
of this, and the multitude of small airports in our area, I usually just
airport hop for cross country flights. We also have unpredictable landout
options because 90% of the fields seem to be corn, which at the wrong time
of the year are dangerous. So I'm looking for land and tow out airports

I'm mapping out good airports in various directions but have some
questions:

1. In a standard class ship what might be the narrowest runway for landing
when there are runway edge lights?
Will prolly depend (a lot!) on your "acceptable crosswind component. That
said, if the lights/runway-edge-markers are lower than wings-roughly-level
taxi-height, then arguably they won't matter, and, if a veer is in your
future, it may be possible to do so while holding the critical wing above the
obstacle. It's been done...
- - - - - -


2. What about for an unassisted tow from (how narrow with runway lights)
Will almost certainly be affected by whether you've a nose or CG-only hook,
and X-wind again, not to mention tug grunt and how "tuned in" might be your
tug pilot...
- - - - - -


3. Will a wing runner make much of a difference on a narrow strip
Quite possibly...and in both the "good" and "bad" senses. Ad-hoc education is
good!
- - - - - -


4. Turf/grass v asphalt, is one easier than the other given runway edge
lights?
In crosswinds, directionally speaking, asphalt tends to "bite" while grass
tends to "slide." Asphalt will likely have better braking, though turf may
well have considerably more wheel drag...meaning predicting rollout length
isn't a hard science. Don't overlook "grass height" when it comes to assessing
turf acceptability.
- - - - - -


It's all about clipping a light.

I've also noticed from satellite views that there is often a grass parallel
area located at many asphalt strips, but no way of knowing if these are
landable.


Again, there's no substitute for feet-on-the-ground knollich...wet spring days
can be good for obtaining it. Be very wary about accepting others'
assessments, particularly if power-only types, no matter how well intended.

In all seriousness, this sort of stuff/planning/self-education is part of the
great fun of doing XC. Enjoy your journey!

Bob W.

Spend a weekend fixing trailers. You'll be a lot more comfortable going xc then.

Unless intended for landings, the grass may very well be a drainage.
Depending upon depth, your wing tip(s) may drag the ground before your
wheel touches down. I will always take the pavement at an airport
unless I know for certain that grass is intended for landing.


On 5/26/2016 7:19 AM, BobW wrote:
It's all about clipping a light.

I've also noticed from satellite views that there is often a grass
parallel
area located at many asphalt strips, but no way of knowing if these are
landable.

--
Dan, 5J

Great advice. I'm planning to fly power and inspect some of the airports in question. Both the ships I fly are standard class CG hook.

Generally the paved strips I'm considering (with edge lights) are 72' wide to 75' wide. Considering runway lights are at least a few feet beyond the runway edge, it seem 75' would work pretty well, even if a wing dropped before I came to a complete stop. Seems you have to have at least the center line, or hold wings level till a complete stop in this situation.

Aerotow with our Pawnee, unassisted seems like a more difficult proposition based on above runway. But with the JJ wing runner, or a human wing runner, maybe it's ok. Our STD Cirrus really likes to drop a wing unexpectedly pre 30kts or so. Another subject, but I think I need to get better at using both aileron AND rudder to counter this. Aileron only doesn't usually cut it. I worry that if I apply full rudder it's going to make the ship veer off to one side.

Practice unassisted TO's at your home field.
Slight cross angle of the glider to the runway, tip on the ground. Say you angle right a bit, put the left tip down (keep in mind any crosswind) such that it's drag on the ground aligns you as you accelerate. Part dive brakes can help with flow over the ailerons in the first hundred feet or so. Don't forget to close and lock the dive brakes.

On Thursday, 26 May 2016 09:44:39 UTC-6, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Practice unassisted TO's at your home field.
Slight cross angle of the glider to the runway, tip on the ground. Say you angle right a bit, put the left tip down (keep in mind any crosswind) such that it's drag on the ground aligns you as you accelerate. Part dive brakes can help with flow over the ailerons in the first hundred feet or so. Don't forget to close and lock the dive brakes.

When I self launch, wheels on the wings assist this, the tow plane will stand on the brakes for 15 or seconds and create prop wash that helps with lifting the down wing and getting wind over the wings.

YEMV

On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 6:44:39 PM UTC+3, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Practice unassisted TO's at your home field.
Slight cross angle of the glider to the runway, tip on the ground. Say you angle right a bit, put the left tip down (keep in mind any crosswind) such that it's drag on the ground aligns you as you accelerate. Part dive brakes can help with flow over the ailerons in the first hundred feet or so. Don't forget to close and lock the dive brakes.

Maybe if you have a CG hook. In which case angle into the crosswind and put the other tip down.

With a nose hook, If you angle right and put the left wing tip down then both rope and tip will be swinging you to the left, which can be a recipe for a violent fishtailing. Better to put the same tip down so the rope is pulling you left and the tip is pulling you right, and you'll be in perfect control.

The amount of angling is not big. Definitely try where there is some width available at your home field to find the right balance of tip turning you one way and rope the other.

Having the down tip going faster also makes it easier to pick it up.

Don't even try to take-off unassisted with a CG hook. It won't go well. I fly a standard class glider with a CG hook. I carry a JJ WingRunner in the cockpit with me on every flight and have used it in the very scenario you are anticipating - landout at a paved strip and aerotow out un-assisted. Entirely uneventful. It breaks down into very small components and is stowed in the baggage compartment until needed. Then assembly and attachment to the wingtip is quick and easy as per JJ's instructions. I consider it an essential piece of equipment and prefer to use that rather than an untrained human wingrunner.
Tom

An unassisted launch on a paved strip is not difficult.

I have an ASW 19, with GC hook and wingtip skids.

The first step is to get your handy dandy Home Depot caster out and stick it onto the wingtip with double sided tape.

Communication with the tow pilot is critical - you want to go from zero to fast as quickly as possible. The standard practice of pulling out the slack, stopping, announcing you are taking off, is not good here. You want once the slack is out you want to go - like a contest tow. The trick is to get aileron and rudder authority quickly, which means a fast start.

And once you have control authority it doesn't matter how close those lights are, because you're not going to hit them.