IFR in motorglider?

Well Tom,

Wrong again.

You may have an instrument rating in a helicopter or an autogiro (powered
lift). Clearly they are not "Airplanes".

I am aware that there is no instrument glider designation but that is not
the point.

As I have already exhaustively pointed out, a motor glider is considered a
powered aircraft for the purposes of 14 CFR 91.205. That being the case, a
current IFR ticket (however defined) will enable you to fly a properly
equipped motor glider under IFR.
14 CFR 61.23 B(8) also says that you do not need a medical to take a test or
check for a certificate, rating or authorization when using a flight
simulator or flight training device.

Also, 14 CFR 61.3 (E)(3) specifies that to fly a glider under IFR you may
have a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an
AIRPLANE instrument rating.

Thus, you may renew your instrument rating, take a check or become current
without any medical at all.

In addition, the recency requirements for flying IFR under 14 CFR
61.57(C)(2) i and ii allow you to become current with:
1. 3 hours instrument time in as glider in flight -simulated or actual.
(For which no medical is required), or
2. Up to 1.5 hrs in an aircraft of a total of 3 hours in flight and ( if you
can persuade the other pilot to be PIC) no medical is required.

So, despite the desire of almost everyone here to rewrite the regulations to
suit their particular prejudices,
we can do what is permitted and safe and this is one of those things..

Allan

"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
"ADP" wrote in message
...
Where in 61.23? In fact, it says precisely the opposite.

IFR flight requires an "Instrument-Airplane" rating. "Airplane"
requires a medical. There is no "Instrument-Glider" rating.

Tom

Tom Seim wrote:

I will remind you that the original post was whether it was legal to
fly said glider WITHOUT A CURRENT MEDICAL! The answer to this question
must be an unequivocal NO!

Aggghhh. This one comes down again to if one
thinks a motorglider is a powered aircraft.
This subject is too fuzzy for me to agree or
disagree. I'd tell you that
a) I have a medical so I don't personally care so much
b) if I didn't have a medical I might interpret
the rule to mean I can't fly in clouds with the engine on,
(but I can fly in them with it removed or stowed)
which is silly.
c) if I had a medical revoked or failed, I'd
likely not be safe to fly anything at all...

So really I guess the pilot wants to know if
he can fly a motorglider in the clouds with the motor
running with an expired medical but no
known adverse medical problems.

That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the purpose of complying with § 91.205.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40edcd7c$1@darkstar...


That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

"ADP" wrote in message ...
Well Tom,

Wrong again.

You may have an instrument rating in a helicopter or an autogiro (powered
lift). Clearly they are not "Airplanes".

Picky, picky. Same difference.


I am aware that there is no instrument glider designation but that is not
the point.

As I have already exhaustively pointed out, a motor glider is considered a
powered aircraft for the purposes of 14 CFR 91.205. That being the case, a
current IFR ticket (however defined) will enable you to fly a properly
equipped motor glider under IFR.
14 CFR 61.23 B(8) also says that you do not need a medical to take a test or
check for a certificate, rating or authorization when using a flight
simulator or flight training device.

Also, 14 CFR 61.3 (E)(3) specifies that to fly a glider under IFR you may
have a pilot certificate with a glider category rating and an
AIRPLANE instrument rating.

Thus, you may renew your instrument rating, take a check or become current
without any medical at all.

In addition, the recency requirements for flying IFR under 14 CFR
61.57(C)(2) i and ii allow you to become current with:
1. 3 hours instrument time in as glider in flight -simulated or actual.
(For which no medical is required), or
2. Up to 1.5 hrs in an aircraft of a total of 3 hours in flight and ( if you
can persuade the other pilot to be PIC) no medical is required.

I concede the point that, in this special case, it is possible to
maintain IFR currency without a current medical.


So, despite the desire of almost everyone here to rewrite the regulations to
suit their particular prejudices,
we can do what is permitted and safe and this is one of those things..

That is not to say that the practice is safe. Presumably, the pilot in
question doesn't have a current medical because he lost it for some
important medical reason. You cannot declare his actions safe w/o
knowing what that reason was. Remember, we self-certify that we are
fit to fly gliders. As I am sure you are aware, we do not have cart
blanche to fly with a disabling medical condition.

And, yes, I don't know why the guy lost his medical either.

Tom

Wow Tom, quite a concession.

Yes there is a difference between being legal and being safe.
Being legal and being dead doesn't make a lot of sense to me either.
Of course, being picky again, we do not "self certify", we simply observe
the requirements of 14 CFR 61.53(b). While I and, I suspect, you take
this regulation very seriously, I concede that some others may not.

This mirrors the real world, some people are responsible and some are not.
My observations indicate that pilots, of any type, are usually more
responsible
than the general population.

There is at least one other reason why an individual may not have a current
medical.
In my case, while undergoing a back operation, my First Class Medical
expired.
After multiple operations, I have fully recovered but choose not to go
through the
draconian requirements to requalify for a medical. Filling out the Doctor
visits alone
would require 5 extra pages. Although I believe I could qualify for a
medical of
some degree, I choose not to. Having flown powered aircraft most of my life
I am now concentrating on soaring with, I might add, great pleasure.

So, be safe out there and keep the rest of us on our toes.

Cheers,

Allan


"Tom Seim" wrote in message
om...
"ADP" wrote in message
...
Well Tom,

Wrong again.

You may have an instrument rating in a helicopter or an autogiro (powered
lift). Clearly they are not "Airplanes".

Picky, picky. Same difference.

....SNIP......

That is not to say that the practice is safe. Presumably, the pilot in
question doesn't have a current medical because he lost it for some
important medical reason. You cannot declare his actions safe w/o
knowing what that reason was. Remember, we self-certify that we are
fit to fly gliders. As I am sure you are aware, we do not have cart
blanche to fly with a disabling medical condition.

And, yes, I don't know why the guy lost his medical either.

Tom

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...e_Library%5Crg
AdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/EAE91A15C5E11823862569B600563FBF?OpenDocument

You gotta paste together the link, sorry ;(

In article ,
ADP wrote:
AC 21 17-2(a) states:
h. Section 91.205 of the FAR. Powered gliders are considered to be powered
aircraft for the purpose of complying with § 91.205.

Allan


"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40edcd7c$1@darkstar...


That's a good question for the FSDO. I dunno what they'd
say. Somebody ref'd an AC on this but the early posts in this
thread are no longer accessible. Ooops, I shoulda saved the
AC ref...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA




--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Tom Seim wrote:
And, yes, I don't know why the guy lost his medical either.

If I used to fly power and then flew only gliders in
my "retirement" I wouldn't get a renewal medical ever.
My doc said the EKG is like $120 for over 40. Yikes,
I can't afford to get old...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

EKG not required for a Class III medical, only a Class I. A basic exam
usually only runs about $75 to $85 unless there are "problems", but then you
don't need one except maybe for peace of mind.

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40f3823f$1@darkstar...
Tom Seim wrote:
And, yes, I don't know why the guy lost his medical either.

If I used to fly power and then flew only gliders in
my "retirement" I wouldn't get a renewal medical ever.
My doc said the EKG is like $120 for over 40. Yikes,
I can't afford to get old...
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

Originally Posted by Paul Lynch

EKG not required for a Class III medical, only a Class I. A basic exam
usually only runs about $75 to $85 unless there are "problems", but then you
don't need one except maybe for peace of mind.

"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:40f3823f$1@darkstar...
Tom Seim wrote:
And, yes, I don't know why the guy lost his medical either.

If I used to fly power and then flew only gliders in
my "retirement" I wouldn't get a renewal medical ever.
My doc said the EKG is like $120 for over 40. Yikes,
I can't afford to get old...Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

--

This is a really old thread, but I am looking at the issue now. As some indicated above, the FAA regs are clear. An airplance instrument rating and glider rating allows you to fly gliders and motor gliders IFR, as long as you meet the ifr currency requirements. Motor gliders are gliders as far as the faa regs go, so you need no medical. It is possible to equip a motor glider with the items required in FAR 91.205. BUT, all the motor gliders I am aware of, are certified day vfr only. So this restriction does not change, whether you install all the ifr equipment or not. The manufacturer can not remove this restriction without a new certification for the motor glider. The only option I can think of is getting a DAR to do a field approval to add IFR to the Airworhtyness cert. I can't find any evidence that this has ever been accomplished. I've talked to EAA and they have no info. I will try the soaring society next, but it doesn't look good. I've hear rumors that STEMME will try to certify ifr on their new S6 and S8 due to military interest, but no written evidence, and those things cost $300K
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