Tires again (but this time on the tow vehicle)

Finally, one of the guys in my club has an Outback (2004, I think), and
he's very satisfied with it as a towing vehicle. I couldn't get over
the handling (I use the car for a lot of highway driving other than
towing) and the looks (which are better in the newer models), otherwise
I'd be driving an Outback right now.

P3


Several posts in this thread have mentioned the Subaru Outback. It
appears to have a rather large distance between the rear axle and the
tow hitch. I wonder how that affects handling?

By contrast, the VW Golf has a relatively short distance between the
rear axle and hitch. And the Mercedes B-Class (a Golf sized car with
200 hp coming in November) has almost no rear overhang, and thus would
have an especially short distance between axle and hitch (rear overhang
is 23% of wheelbase, while Golf is 29%, and Outback appears to be close
to 40%).

Based on my desire for a small car that has considerable power, a short
distance between axle and hitch, a low center of gravity, and a rather
stiff suspension with performance tires, I wonder if the B-Class (about
$25,000, allegedly) would be a good choice.

Papa3 wrote:
I just posted a similar thought in response to Michael's note, above.
A suggestion for folks in the US might be to leverage the soaring
community in other countries to do their research there. Every time
I've been at a glider operation in Germany, I've seen tow hitches that
blow the doors off of anything you can get in the States mounted on
cars that I've been told "cannot possibly tow a glider trailer."
Granted, many of the towing distances are shorter, but the Autobahn and
the Alps equal anything we have here in terms of testing towing
capability...

??? Have you ever driven up to the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 in the
middle of summer? 14,000 ft density altitude at 60 mph. Some cars
struggle with one person and a half a tank of gas!

Shawn

Shawn wrote:
Papa3 wrote:

I just posted a similar thought in response to Michael's note, above.
A suggestion for folks in the US might be to leverage the soaring
community in other countries to do their research there. Every time
I've been at a glider operation in Germany, I've seen tow hitches that
blow the doors off of anything you can get in the States mounted on
cars that I've been told "cannot possibly tow a glider trailer."
Granted, many of the towing distances are shorter, but the Autobahn and
the Alps equal anything we have here in terms of testing towing
capability...


??? Have you ever driven up to the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 in the
middle of summer? 14,000 ft density altitude at 60 mph. Some cars
struggle with one person and a half a tank of gas!

Shawn

If you have a small car, you get in the right hand lane with the trucks.
Your arrival at your destination may be delayed by 10 minutes or so.

Greg Arnold wrote:
Shawn wrote:

Papa3 wrote:

I just posted a similar thought in response to Michael's note, above.
A suggestion for folks in the US might be to leverage the soaring
community in other countries to do their research there. Every time
I've been at a glider operation in Germany, I've seen tow hitches that
blow the doors off of anything you can get in the States mounted on
cars that I've been told "cannot possibly tow a glider trailer."
Granted, many of the towing distances are shorter, but the Autobahn and
the Alps equal anything we have here in terms of testing towing
capability...



??? Have you ever driven up to the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 in the
middle of summer? 14,000 ft density altitude at 60 mph. Some cars
struggle with one person and a half a tank of gas!

Shawn


If you have a small car, you get in the right hand lane with the trucks.
Your arrival at your destination may be delayed by 10 minutes or so.

More like 40 minutes in the anemic Honda I used to own.


Shawn

"Greg Arnold" wrote in message
news:lG6Nd.29085$xt.15106@fed1read07...
Michael McNulty wrote:



If you are a stickler for manufacturer's recommendations, I suppose you
also are a stickler for speed limits?

You suppose wrongly.

If so, at least in California, a car limited to towing at 55 mph should not
be a problem.


I don't live in California.

Greg Arnold wrote:
Several posts in this thread have mentioned the Subaru Outback. It
appears to have a rather large distance between the rear axle and the
tow hitch. I wonder how that affects handling?

One of the partners in our Duo tows it with his Outback, and he's
indicated that the combo works fine. I've been tempted to get one
myself, but I'd likely opt for the Forester, which has a larger
specified tow capacity (2500 lbs, I believe), and looks like it has less
overhang.

Marc

At 19:30 05 February 2005, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Greg Arnold wrote:
Several posts in this thread have mentioned the Subaru
Outback. It
appears to have a rather large distance between the
rear axle and the
tow hitch. I wonder how that affects handling?

One of the partners in our Duo tows it with his Outback,
and he's
indicated that the combo works fine. I've been tempted
to get one
myself, but I'd likely opt for the Forester, which
has a larger
specified tow capacity (2500 lbs, I believe), and looks
like it has less
overhang.

Marc

Interesting difference - in the UK the Outback has
a towing limits of 1800 to 2000lbs and the Forester
1500 to 200lbs, both depending on the precise model.
The Forester is based on the Impreza chassis which
is a size down from the Legacy/Outback. I had a Legacy
which was a good tow car and have been considering
another or a Forester (if I can't get my 16 year old
Mercedes 4WD system fixed).

It is always puzzling to listen in the the US tow car
discussions because there seem to be reports of problems
towing with cars that we regard as excellent in Europe.
My only hypothesis is that it is because of the softer
suspension set ups preferred in the US market. I
have seen an LS7 towed around Europe with a Peugot
205 and used a 1400cc 75 hp Honda Civic Shuttle myself
one year which made a super stable towcar because of
its wide wheel base and firm suspension.

John Galloway

"Shawn" wrote
??? Have you ever driven up to the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 in the
middle of summer? 14,000 ft density altitude at 60 mph. Some cars
struggle with one person and a half a tank of gas!

Which is why all three of my vehicles have turbochargers. The Volvo XC-70
has a rated tow capacity of 3300 lbs and gets a surprisingly low 21 mpg
around town towing nothing... not a lot better than my Dodge one ton dually
with a Cummins Turbo Diesel - it gets 18 mpg average towing the Nimbus over
the pass to Ephrata. With the camper on, the mpg goes down to 13 towing the
Nimbus - but it would be higher if I wasn't going up the hill at 73 mph on
cruise control with the house on the back dragging the Pfeiffer.

Jim

Following this logic, I'd be better off using an M-1
Abrahms... :-))

You are correct. In a panic, rainy, downhill stop
situation, I'd take the Abrams if it was available
)

All kidding aside, the 3/4-ton Dodge diesel gets 25
MPG empty, 20 in town and 20 pulling the sailplane
trailer. (I'm not exaggerating. I keep a fuel logbook
for tax purposes.) In its 2 WD configuration, 5 speed,
and without a lot of bells and whistles, it cost around
$26000 new in 2001. It now has 165,000 miles (mostly
pulling the trailer) and runs like new. Other than
oil changes, it's never been in the shop. I expect
it to last around 300,000 miles. The last set of tires
even lasted 90,000 miles! It's big, comfortable and
roomy enough for all my gear. I've run the numbers.
It is the cheapest sailplane transporter there is.
And no sparkplugs to change )

There is NEVER a question about towing authority.
I've had a few panic stop situations that would have
been pretty scary in anything lighter. I've had trailer
tires blow and wouldn't have even known if I hadn't
heard the bang.

I've seen a sailplane trailer blow a tire and wrap
itself around an Acura Legend. Totaled the car and
trailer. Luckily, the sailplane wasn't in it at the
time. Nearly sideswiped a semi in the process. Up
till then, it towed fine.

If you tow a lot with the VW, you can expect to put
a new transmission in before 100,000 miles. And a
hefty fee to tow it and the trailer from whatever God-forsaken
stretch of highway it failed on...probably at midnight.

Just my $.02 worth.





At 22:00 04 February 2005, Papa3 wrote:
IMHO, not nearly enough
tow vehicle mass, regardless of tires

Following this logic, I'd be better off using an M-1
Abrahms... :-))

The Passat is a fantastic tow vehicle. With a curb
weight of around
3800 lbs, all-wheel drive, stiff suspension, low CG,
and a relatively
short coupling between hitch and rear axle, it's a
great compromise
between tow vehicle and every day transportation.
And with highway
mileage of about 25 (versus what - 16 for the Dodge?),
I can still
afford to take a tow when I get to the airport! (and
no, I don't really
tow at 75mph, but it is [was] no problem if I needed
to for short
bursts with the old setup).

P3

Bob C wrote:

All kidding aside, the 3/4-ton Dodge diesel gets 25
MPG empty, 20 in town and 20 pulling the sailplane
trailer.

Indeed,

I had the choice of the new 2004.5 CTD or the older version and went
with the new motor - gets lower mileage for sure. But that 600 ft. lbs.
of torque sure makes for nice climbs. I've towed with lots of different
things and it's sure nice to be in charge of the formation on a wet
mountain pass!

Jim