Fueling from Plastic Containers and Blowing yourself up?

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 22:34:53 -0800, Richard Riley
wrote:

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:42:05 GMT, Nathan Young
wrote:

:On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:44:39 -0800, Richard Riley
wrote:
:
:I've seen one. Had nothing to do with gasoline. Had it on a wall
:recharger overnight. In the middle of the night I heard a bang, and
:came to find (afte searching the house) that the battery had exploded
:with the force of a small firecracker.
:
:Just curious, was this the stock battery on the cellphone or an
:aftermarket one?

It was semi-after market. It was labeled as an original, factory
battery from the same company that made the phone, but I bought it
from a cart in a mall, so it could have been counterfeit.

I recall reading about a rash of cell phones blowing up due to poor
quality replacement batteries. Not saying that is what happened here,
but it is a good possibility.

-Nathan

Juaquin Murrieta wrote:

What did you just say?? Kerosene is less volatile so is
more dangerous?? Tell you what... try this experiment for
me. Take a small dish of kerosene, about a cup, no more and
hold a lighted match above it. Vary the distance of the
match from 10" to 1/2" above the kerosene. Ok, did it
catch on fire??

Now, take another small dish with the same amount of auto
gasoline (oh, to add another variable, try it later with
Aviation Gas). Same dish, same match and Same distances
from the fuel. Did it catch on fire??

I STRONGLY suggest you use a very long match or otherwise
keep your hands at least two feet from the dishes. Also,
any injurys resulting from this experiment are solely your
responsibility.



As usual, words just don't do it and my explanation above is
inadequate. Yes, Kerosene is less volatile. Because of that, there
are fewer hydrocarbon molecules leaving the surface and saturating
the air above the liquid. It turns out that this lower
hydrocarbon/oxygen ratio is combustible where that ratio in a gas can
holding gasoline is not combustible. With gasoline, it's more
volatile and therefore there are too many hydrocarbon molecules in
the
air above the liquid. The kinetics aren't right for combustion.


Dead wrong.

Google for 'combustible liquid' and for 'inflammible liquid'.

The lowest concentation at which a spark can ignite the vapors
above a liquid is called the lower inflammible (or explosive)
limit (LEL). The highest concentration at which a spark will
ignite the vapors above the liquid is the upper inflammible
(or explosive) limit (UEL). The temperature at which the vapors
above a liquid will reach the UEL is called the flashpoint.

A liquid with a low flashpoint, low enough that it is easily
ignited at room temperature, is an imflammible liquid. The
exact flashpoint used by formal standards organizations seems
to have varied over the years. If the flashpoint is high
enough that the liquid does not readily ignite at room
temperature the liquid is called a combustible liquid.

Kerosene is combustible. To ignite it, you need to atomize
the liquid or heat it. Holding a match to the surface will
heat it enough to ignite it. A spark inside a can of kerosine
at room temperature will not ignite it because the concentration
in the atmosphere above the kerosene is below the LEL

Gasoline is inflammible liquid. The vapor above the liquid can
be ignited by a spark or open flame. In a _vented_ can the
concentration above the liquid may rise above the UEL. If it
does, then the vapor in the can will not be ignited by a
spark. However, if the can is not vented there will be air
trapped in the can and the concentration of the vapor may
well hover between the LEL and the UEL.

In YOUR example of throwing a cigarette into a can of gasoline,
the concentration at your hand may be below the LEL and the
concentration in the can above the UEL but in between your
hand and the inside of the can the cigarette will pass
through a region that is between the two.

At room temperature you will nto ignite the vapors above kerosene
using a spark or open flame, unless they are close enough to
heat the liquid. Not so for gasoline. Usually gasoline can
be ignited by a spark or open flame. If it is in a sealed
container that is vented so the the vapors can displace the
oxygen through the process of diffusion then it won't ignite,
but you cannot throw a cigarette into a sealed container.

I do not know for sure the reason to not put jet fuel in a
gasoline can. One very good reason is that there is no reliable
way to clean all of the gasoline out of a can. Putting jet fuel
or kerosene or any combustible liquid in a can contaminated
by gasoline will contaminate the combustible liquid with the
more volotile gasoline.

--

FF

C J Campbell wrote:
"John Ammeter" wrote in message
...
...
Now, take another small dish with the same amount of auto
gasoline (oh, to add another variable, try it later with
Aviation Gas). Same dish, same match and Same distances
from the fuel. Did it catch on fire??


Ah. But now try it with a lighted cigarette.

http://intuitor.com/moviephysics/index.html and scroll down to the
section
"Cigarettes."

I bet kerosene will behave the same way.

--

FF

wrote:

...
The temperature at which the vapors
above a liquid will reach the UEL is called the flashpoint.

Sorry. That should be "LEL"

--

FF