The Decline of Soaring Awards

John,

With regard to the Lark: our club had one and I enjoyed flying it for local cross country. At the time there was a lot of reluctance to go fare due to the crew needed for retrieve, but with a little practice it's not too bad.. It is a bit heavier than a G103, but it does fly well, has retractable gear for practice, and flap that do help it slow for smaller thermals. Good for practice!

I'm in the Portland Oregon area and have specialized in XC training for 16 years. Look me up on the SSA member search. Contest number 4M, Mike Bamberg. I could take a road trip up to WA to fly if your club permits. (after the COVID-19 lockdowns are lifted).

Hey John,

Regarding price, it all depends on what you are looking for.

A really nice 1-26E, full decked out with all the bells and whistles, parachute, and oxygen will run you upwards of $12,500, sure. Heck, you can get a zero-timed 1-26 from K&L Schweizer for 25k if you really want to splurge.

But you can get an airworthy beater for $4-5000 too. Projects for less.

I know of an airworthy Ka-6 that recently sold for $4000. A Ka-8 in a barn that could probably had for free to simply get it out of the guy's life.

If you want an airworthy single-seater on the cheap, they're out there.

All the best,
Daniel

Many posts here for me to reply to....not picking on this poster...
I had roughly 200hrs in 2-33 and 1-26 before "better ships".....

In a weekend, I was flown in a Cessna 150 to use flaps, then signed off and flew.... SGS-1-34, SGS-1-35, PIK-20....the Cessna 150 gave me a means to understand flaps....as well as changes in pitch attitude....

While not huge, had contest pilots as well as CFIG-G's as mentors......

I spent a number of years pushing glider students to basics as well as XC...
I remember a "familersion" (sp) flight with a DPE in a ASK-21(he owned) before I flew rides, etc. We were a long way from home, decent NE day, I pressed outward.....
Owner/DPE was questioning my flight.....
We had a longish day, got home, never an issue (to me).
We had fun, got signed off in the Ask-21....

Yes, I did A, B, C, Bronze, Silver, Gold, 2 Diamonds, from 1 airport....need diamond altitude.....most were done in "low performance" ships....

Yes, I picked on some of our club peeps that wanted "fast glass and electronics", I would drive to the ridge in a 1-26 and "hope" things worked out.....
Usually it did.
Look out the canopy, maybe check a map, what looks decent....

Our club has a "go long, go far...we can fetch" mentality....not all do that.
I appreciate my "upbringing" early on, I try to foster that....

Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.

Even though I'm already an old guy, my endurance in the air has slowly increased over a decade of flying to about 3 hours. For a younger pilot, 5 hour duration flight might be more a matter of skillfully finding lift, and less a matter of raw endurance.

I'm over it now, John.Â* I was in a cranky mood this morning as I
prepared to go into town to get a cancerous piece of my ear removed (one
of the benefits of being old and spending a lot of time in the sun).Â*
Your apology is sheepishly accepted and please accept mine for unloading
on you like that.

Dan

On 3/24/2020 12:37 PM, John Foster wrote:
On Tuesday, March 24, 2020 at 8:39:40 AM UTC-6, Dan Marotta wrote:
Well, I was on your side until you said, "retired old men sitting on a
nest egg".Â* That's a perfect description of me.Â* I worked long and hard
for what I have and I deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of a lot of
today's younger folk.

Having said that, I and a lot of my peers, learned cross country soaring
on our own, by trial and error, or with a mentor who would lead or
follow along on a flight and give advice.Â* Take a look at the cross
country soaring chapter of The American Soaring Handbook. There's all
the information you need to fly cross country.Â* And, no, it's not to my
knowledge available for display on your smart phone. Get off your ass,
quit complaining, and do something for yourself.

I know it's hard to hear that, but you can't always be led by the nose.
Dan, 5J
Thanks for your feedback, Dan. I apologize if I offended you (or anyone else that resembles that remark). That was not my intent. However, I am frustrated by the rising cost of so many things in soaring. I too, deeply resent the "gimme" attitude of so many younger folks today, and my comment about the nest egg was in no way intended to sound demanding of a hand-out, but rather that it is getting more difficult to start something or branch out from the normal operations unless you are sitting on a pile of money.

The idea of practicing with Condor really appeals to me. So does the idea of using a 1-26. However, here again, the price seems to be slowly climbing for a decent one of these too. Tackling the problem of instructors who feel incapable of teaching XC--well that's another matter I guess. But I like the idea of partnering with another member who does do XC to sit in the back seat of the 2-33.

--
Dan, 5J

You could do like me and take off with a case of the flu (back in the
'80s), sit miserably in the cockpit for 5 1/2 hours, and land to find
that you'd not screwed the nut tightly enough on the barograph drum and
it did not rotate.

Or you could save that 5 hour duration flight for your first of many
Gold Distance/Diamond Goal attempts.Â* It'll likely take you 5 hours or
more in early attempts, anyway.Â* Good luck!

On 3/24/2020 3:29 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.

Even though I'm already an old guy, my endurance in the air has slowly increased over a decade of flying to about 3 hours. For a younger pilot, 5 hour duration flight might be more a matter of skillfully finding lift, and less a matter of raw endurance.

--
Dan, 5J

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 14:29:35 -0700, son_of_flubber wrote:

Maybe I'm the only pilot put off the entire badge system by the 5 hour
duration flight. I'd surely get dull and bored after ~3.5 hours and
flying dull increases risk. The benefit that I'd subjectively assign to
a longer flight does not offset the risk that I subjectively perceive.

Its a useful marker: in a lower moderate performance glider, say Libelle
to Pegase, under UK or New England conditions, its going to take you 4-5
hours to cover crack 300km (Gold distance or Diamond Goal flight).

It was also useful in convincing me that I *could* stay up that long.
That, by itself, makes it a good personal goal regardless of the Silver
qualification.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the problems soaring faced.. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, **** everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 16:32:43 -0700, dtarmichael wrote:

There is some merit to the "nest egg" comment. Follow me here. The
sucessful clubs in the world (almost all European) have enjoyed decades
of equity growth in both equipment and experience. These are true clubs
that pool their resources and have a significantly greater experience to
offer members and prospective members. Conversely in the USA we share
almost nothing financially or in knowledge.
A new member must be willing to pay through the nose to train in a
P.O.S. with an "instructor" who's never left the pattern. IF they earn
their certificate they need to bootstrap a cross country program on
their own or retake the same check ride twice and spend their days in
the back of a 2-33 as an "instructor" themselves. The system doesn't
work. Save your stories about how if you did it anyone can do it. The
general public isn't buying it, so I'm not either.
On the bright side there is enough experience to tap into, the proper
aircraft exist. What is needed is people giving back. I see the
entitlement issue differently. Recently a friend claimed to "play in his
own sand box" meaning he had his own glider and was insulated from the
problems soaring faced. That is the entitlement! "I got mine, ****
everyone else!" Until we pool our resources and give back our FAILED
sport will continue to circle the drain in the USA.

Well put, sir!

I'm well aware that I gave myself a good start by joining one of the
larger UK clubs, which had then, and still has, an all-glass fleet and a
large airfield. The two additional things that I didn't know enough to
even consider are that the club has always had a very strong XC culture
and that all our instructors were then, and are now, all XC pilots
themselves. So, its assumed that when you solo, you'll convert to a
single seater almost immediately, will join one of the duty rosters in
return for all the free instruction you've been given, and will have your
beady eyes fixed on getting Bronze and Silver badges as the rite of
passage into becoming a regular XC pilot.

I have some awareness of the differences between clubs on the two sides
of the pond: I've flown at Front Royal, Avenal, Williams, Minden and
Boulder. Of these, Avenal felt most familiar.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Thank you, Daniel! Good to know I am not the only one who keeps tabs on these old birds!

Steve Leonard