Folded wing tip question

Red Rider wrote:

From the dim recesses of my mind I recall that there was one F-8 that took
off from San Clemente, one evening (night carrier quals about '62?????) with
the winds folded, He managed to turn around and landed safely, and then went
on out to the ship. Don't remember where he changed his flight suit. Can't
recall the name either but I seem to remember that he was well known, at
least later as Sq CO, or maybe CAG.

The F-8 wing folded wing incident in Italy was that Sigonella? or Naples?
Maybe off a carrier in/near Naples Bay? I remember the incident but for some
reason I connect it with Naples.

I have also heard of other folded wing Crusader incidents. I can't recall
the details of them but they included stories of two French F-8N's. I think
that they all flew. As far as wing incidence, left up/down or stuck, that
barely merited a mention.

Barrett Tilman mentions seven Crusader wings-folded takeoffs (out of 12, the
first involving an AD out of NAS Charlestown, RI in 1949, pilot jumped) in"Mig
Master", occurring between 1960 and 1969, and all made successful landings. All
but one were at night, and usually involved a hot refueling. The daytime
incident involved a VF-11 a/c flown by Lt. Jack Barnes out of Capodichino
airport near Naples, on 2 August 1960. He was doing 175 knots on final. Others
we

31 March 1964, Lt. Cdr. Thomas Hudner (MoH in Korea flying the F4U), San
Clemente, Ca. Hudner pushed negative G and got first one and then the other tip
to drop into place and lock, then lowered the wing and landed.

August 1966, marine major of VMF(AW)-235, Danang, folded his wings to clear
another a/c while taxiing, then took off loaded with 1,000 lb. of bombs and six
Zunis. Dumped his ordnance, dropped his hook, made a fast approach and caught
the arrester gear. It was really not his night, because he'd neglected to lower
his landing gear.

About 10 months later, another marine, same outfit and location, took off with 2
tons of bombs and six Zunis, which were disposed of and recovery made at 160+
knots on final.

1966 and 1967, Miramar, VF-191 and VF-53. No other info.

January 1969, location unstated, pilot had just rotated when controller informed
him of situation, he chopped the power, dropped the hook and arrested.

The French could have had others, but the book was published in 1980 so they may
have occurred later.

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Red Rider wrote:

From the dim recesses of my mind I recall that there was one F-8 that
took
off from San Clemente, one evening (night carrier quals about '62?????)
with
the winds folded, He managed to turn around and landed safely, and then
went
on out to the ship. Don't remember where he changed his flight suit.
Can't
recall the name either but I seem to remember that he was well known, at
least later as Sq CO, or maybe CAG.

The F-8 wing folded wing incident in Italy was that Sigonella? or
Naples?
Maybe off a carrier in/near Naples Bay? I remember the incident but for
some
reason I connect it with Naples.

I have also heard of other folded wing Crusader incidents. I can't
recall
the details of them but they included stories of two French F-8N's. I
think
that they all flew. As far as wing incidence, left up/down or stuck,
that
barely merited a mention.

Barrett Tilman mentions seven Crusader wings-folded takeoffs (out of 12,
the
first involving an AD out of NAS Charlestown, RI in 1949, pilot jumped)
in"Mig
Master", occurring between 1960 and 1969, and all made successful
landings. All
but one were at night, and usually involved a hot refueling. The daytime
incident involved a VF-11 a/c flown by Lt. Jack Barnes out of Capodichino
airport near Naples, on 2 August 1960. He was doing 175 knots on final.
Others
we

31 March 1964, Lt. Cdr. Thomas Hudner (MoH in Korea flying the F4U), San
Clemente, Ca. Hudner pushed negative G and got first one and then the
other tip
to drop into place and lock, then lowered the wing and landed.

August 1966, marine major of VMF(AW)-235, Danang, folded his wings to
clear
another a/c while taxiing, then took off loaded with 1,000 lb. of bombs
and six
Zunis. Dumped his ordnance, dropped his hook, made a fast approach and
caught
the arrester gear. It was really not his night, because he'd neglected to
lower
his landing gear.

About 10 months later, another marine, same outfit and location, took off
with 2
tons of bombs and six Zunis, which were disposed of and recovery made at
160+
knots on final.

1966 and 1967, Miramar, VF-191 and VF-53. No other info.

January 1969, location unstated, pilot had just rotated when controller
informed
him of situation, he chopped the power, dropped the hook and arrested.

The French could have had others, but the book was published in 1980 so
they may
have occurred later.

Guy

Guy, thanks for doing the research. At leaast I was about ½ right on the San
Clemente and Naples incidents. Proves I am not completely senile, YET!
grin

Red

"Yofuri" wrote in message
I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick

Excuse me, but on rereading today, now I am unsure of the
outcome you describe. Please clarify for this ex-grunt.
Did pilot eject and plane crash?
Or, did he land with one missing panel (panel hitting house)?

(and thanks for everyone helping out on this thread)

a425couple wrote:
"Yofuri" wrote in message

I can confirm a visiting A7E doing it out of the fuel pits at NAS
Miramar in that era. He was doing fine until he tried to turn downwind
and one panel separated. The only injury was superficial glass cuts to
a toddler in a house on the lip of a canyon when wreckage shattered the
patio door. Rick


Excuse me, but on rereading today, now I am unsure of the
outcome you describe. Please clarify for this ex-grunt.
Did pilot eject and plane crash?
Or, did he land with one missing panel (panel hitting house)?

(and thanks for everyone helping out on this thread)


Outer wing panel broke off in flight; pilot ejected. Fuselage impacted
canyon wall, debris went over the lip of the canyon, shattering back
windows and patio door of a residence.

Rick

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:02:16 -0700, "a425couple"
postulated :

I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify?

I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think
they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely.
But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories.


My friend Kit from the 50s provided some more remembrances regarding
folding wing take offs:

----------------------start--------------------

I recall VF-102 from our very own Air Wing 8, on board
FORRESTAL, during one of the many Med Cruises I endured,
taking off from Naples AERFER, and landing safely back at
the air strip in an F-8 Crusader. It did break one of the uplocks on
the wing, but they fixed it, and it made it back to the ship in a
couple of days.

VF-84 also had one out of Rota flying F-8s..

KIT

---------------------end---------------------

So it appears that there were more than one F-8 Crusaders attempting
flight with folded wings.

I have seen photos of both the 57FIS F-4E and an F-4N flying with their
wings folded. Both were said to have landed safely. FWIW, the wingfold
lock was actuated manually on the F-4E from a point under the fold hinge
using I believe a 1/2 inch drive speed handle or ratchet, no socket, so once
the 57 FIS jet was airborne there would be no way to lock the outer wing
panels down.
Scott Wilson
Phormer F-4C and F-4E Comm-Nav Avionics Specialist

Remember the squadron for the F-4N?

Not many squadrons had this bird. VF-101 in KW, VF-154, VF-21 onboard
Coral-Maru..

I posted a photo I scanned from one of my books of the F-4N airborne with
the wings folded, as well as the two photos of the 57FIS F-4E I found on the
web. You'll find them on alt.binaries.pictures.military
Scott Wilson

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:02:16 -0700, "a425couple"
postulated :

I have a old question, maybe someone can refute, or verify?

I tend to mistrust 'sea-stories' w.o. cites. Sometimes I think
they likely true, probably partly true, or unlikely.
But some good ones stick in my mind, from all categories.

Another Naval Aviator from the 80's time frame responded to my e-mail
question last evening.....

--------------------------start-------------------

....S-3A VIKING OFF THE NIMITZ IN THE MED IN 1982 HAD WINGS START
FOLDING ON TAKEOFF ! KILLED 3, ONE LIVED.

Scott

-------------------------end--------------------