More on Fuel Management - and an Ethical Dilemma

Greg Farris wrote:

When confronted discreetly about it, the pilot was nonchalant. He has
a career ahead of him, and a family, with two young children. Because of
his poor judgment, and even more because of his flippant attitude, some
people who know about this want to make a full-blown incident out of it.
Others feel it would damage or destroy his career - and we "hope" he has
learned his lesson.

"Someone stole the fuel out of it"

"Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message
...
Greg Farris wrote:

When confronted discreetly about it, the pilot was nonchalant. He has
a career ahead of him, and a family, with two young children. Because of
his poor judgment, and even more because of his flippant attitude, some
people who know about this want to make a full-blown incident out of it.
Others feel it would damage or destroy his career - and we "hope" he has
learned his lesson.

"Someone stole the fuel out of it"

Doesn't matter. He is PIC and responsible for making sure he has enought
plus reserves.

On 7/17/05 6:19 PM, in article ,
"Dave Stadt" spewed:


"Darrel Toepfer" wrote in message
...
Greg Farris wrote:

When confronted discreetly about it, the pilot was nonchalant. He has
a career ahead of him, and a family, with two young children. Because of
his poor judgment, and even more because of his flippant attitude, some
people who know about this want to make a full-blown incident out of it.
Others feel it would damage or destroy his career - and we "hope" he has
learned his lesson.

"Someone stole the fuel out of it"

Doesn't matter. He is PIC and responsible for making sure he has enought
plus reserves.


I believe he meant the fuel was stolen during the night, *after* he landed.
--
Jeff 'The Wizard of Draws' Bucchino

Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.wizardofdraws.com

More Cartoons with a Touch of Magic�
http://www.cartoonclipart.com

Wizard of Draws wrote:

"Someone stole the fuel out of it"

Doesn't matter. He is PIC and responsible for making sure he has enought
plus reserves.

I believe he meant the fuel was stolen during the night, *after* he landed.

Shhh, don't confuse the mouse in the wheel...

Dave Stadt wrote:

"Someone stole the fuel out of it"

Doesn't matter. He is PIC and responsible for making sure he has enought
plus reserves.

"After the plane landed and was parked."

Greg Farris wrote:

In the June AOPA Pilot "State of General Aviation" issue, Bruce
Landsberg gives a gold star to Cessna, for their new production singles,
which, according to the article, have not suffered a single fuel
mismanagement accident. Well, I know of one near-miss, which could have
broken that record, and presents an ethical dilemma as well.

It involves a flying club and an ATP rated pilot - in fact, a 767
Captain for a major. He took out a new C-182S on a personal trip, and
returned "uneventfully" under IFR, in IMC at night, with two passengers.
When the plane was refueled in the morning, it took 90GAL of 100LL -
useable fuel for that model is 88GAL, with total 92GAL. It is quite
possible that a missed approach that night would have resulted in three
fatalities.

When confronted discreetly about it, the pilot was nonchalant. He has
a career ahead of him, and a family, with two young children. Because of
his poor judgment, and even more because of his flippant attitude, some
people who know about this want to make a full-blown incident out of it.
Others feel it would damage or destroy his career - and we "hope" he has
learned his lesson.


You've got to do what suits your conscience, but pilot's with an
attitude like that seldom learn from their experiences.

Matt

I don't see the ethical dilemma. This guy almost ran out of fuel. It is one
of the most negligent mistakes a pilot can make. There is no ifs or buts
about it. If I were a member of that club, I would not want him to continue
flying my airplane.



Greg Farris wrote in news:db86di$2puc$1
@biggoron.nerim.net:

In the June AOPA Pilot "State of General Aviation" issue, Bruce
Landsberg gives a gold star to Cessna, for their new production singles,
which, according to the article, have not suffered a single fuel
mismanagement accident. Well, I know of one near-miss, which could have
broken that record, and presents an ethical dilemma as well.

It involves a flying club and an ATP rated pilot - in fact, a 767
Captain for a major. He took out a new C-182S on a personal trip, and
returned "uneventfully" under IFR, in IMC at night, with two passengers.
When the plane was refueled in the morning, it took 90GAL of 100LL -
useable fuel for that model is 88GAL, with total 92GAL. It is quite
possible that a missed approach that night would have resulted in three
fatalities.

When confronted discreetly about it, the pilot was nonchalant. He has
a career ahead of him, and a family, with two young children. Because of
his poor judgment, and even more because of his flippant attitude, some
people who know about this want to make a full-blown incident out of it.
Others feel it would damage or destroy his career - and we "hope" he has
learned his lesson.

On 15 Jul 2005 20:06:45 -0500, Andrew Sarangan
wrote:

I don't see the ethical dilemma. This guy almost ran out of fuel. It is one
of the most negligent mistakes a pilot can make. There is no ifs or buts
about it. If I were a member of that club, I would not want him to continue
flying my airplane.

Which, as the club likely has in their agreement, is their primary
recourse. "Thanks for being a member, but we have some concerns and
are thus terminating your membership. Take care." Beyond that, it's
not their concern where no specific reg (except maybe the catch-all
careless and reckless, and even that one subjective) was shown to be
violated.

Where I'm based the rule is plan to have 1hr reserve upon landing. If
you're found with significantly less, the chief pilot will give you a
call and ask about it. Show him your plan was good but due to (ATC,
weather diversion, whatever) the fuel was lower, end of problem.

These sorts of things are best handled at "lunch".

I'd like to know how many tach hours the guy put on the airplane, if it
was topped off when he took it, and if he refueled it.

My own fuel management routine is simple: take off on the tank I did
the run-up on, burn half of that away (in a M20J there are 33 gallons
on each side), switch to the other tank and burn most of that away,
come back to the starting tank and land for fuel. I can lean to get
less than 10 gal an hour, so the airplane has long legs. I never have
landed with less than one tank half full, and that includes very long
cross country flights like CA to MA. Unless the PIC in the OP had a
really solid excuse, I wouldn't let him fly me unless I managed the
fuel.

Here's the thing. There's probably an increased chance of this guy
being PIC and making a bad flight decision. If it happens, the hand
wringers who are concerned about damaging his career will feel badly
for their inaction. Send a note to the chief pilot of his airlane
outlining the facts as you understand them. You'll have at least
offered a decision maker a head's up. The chief pilot may choose to
investigate or not, but that is not your problem.