O2 and Cypriot airliner crash

John Kirksey wrote:

How, then, can someone like Ed Viesturs repeatedly climb the tallest
mountain peaks in the world without supplemental oxygen? Is it because of
the slower ascent and the time spent acclimating to the higher altitudes?

First, acclimatisation.

Second, walking (and climbing) is different from flying. You don't need
much brain to walk. When piloting, however, everything is about
thinking. And it's the brain which needs the most oxygen.

And maybe a third reason: There are exceptional people who are just
better suited for such things than you and me.

Stefan

Partially because he is acclimated and partly because he is Ed Visteurs.

Mike
MU-2


"John Kirksey" wrote in message
news:cZ0Me.4596$H_4.4209@trnddc07...
Tlme of useful
consciousness
Altitude (ft) without oxygen

40,000 15 seconds
35.000 20 seconds
30,000 30 seconds
28,000 1 minute


How, then, can someone like Ed Viesturs repeatedly climb the tallest
mountain peaks in the world without supplemental oxygen? Is it because of
the slower ascent and the time spent acclimating to the higher altitudes?

John K.

"John Kirksey" wrote in message
news:cZ0Me.4596$H_4.4209@trnddc07...
Tlme of useful
consciousness
Altitude (ft) without oxygen

40,000 15 seconds
35.000 20 seconds
30,000 30 seconds
28,000 1 minute


How, then, can someone like Ed Viesturs repeatedly climb the tallest
mountain peaks in the world without supplemental oxygen? Is it because of
the slower ascent and the time spent acclimating to the higher altitudes?

That and by breathing like he's running a marathon. Sleep and you die.

mo

Happy Dog wrote:

That and by breathing like he's running a marathon. Sleep and you die.

This is just plain bull****. It's all about partial pressure.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Happy Dog wrote:

That and by breathing like he's running a marathon. Sleep and you die.

This is just plain bull****. It's all about partial pressure.

Breathing technique is crucial to high altitude activity. The technique is
very similar to that used by joggers.

moo

wrote

In accounts of the crash of the Cypriot airliner in Greece,

My thoughts on yesterday's accident.

The way the regulations require that it be done.

First........During the preflight, someone ensures that the emergency
oxygen bottles in the lower cargo holds have their valves opened and are
ready for use.

Second...During the cockpit preflight, each pilot tests his oxygen mask
for proper operation and for pressure delivery of oxygen.

Then.......With the engines running and before takeoff, the air
conditioning and pressurization system is turned on (pack valves opened)
and the cruising altitude set in the controller by a crewmember and
verified by the checklist.

The system then functions normally, maintaining a cabin pressure of about
8,000 feet until starting descent.

However if something goes wrong and the cabin altitude rises
uncontrollably............

First.......At 10,000'cabin altitude, A VERY loud warning sounds to alert
the crew. If at cruise altitude, this MANDATES first, immediate donning
of the pilot's oxygen mask followed immediately by an emergency descent
to 14,000'.

Second.. At 13,000' cabin altitude, the outflow valves automatically
close in an attempt to maintain cabin pressure if the system has been
properly turned-on before takeoff. If the system was not properly
turned-on before takeoff, the warning should have occurred during climb.

Third.....At 14,000' cabin altitude, the passenger oxygen masks
automatically drop.

All of these systems are independent. News reports indicate that the
passenger O2 masks did deploy. If so....

Did the warning sound? If it did why was there no emergency descent?
Why was pressure not maintained when the outflow valves closed? Perhaps
the pack valves were not opened before takeoff? Had the pilots O2 bottle
been replaced and the valve not opened or checked during preflight?

Looks like a lot of human error to me. Just speculating.

Bob

Most passenger O2 systems use chemically generated O2.
There are no bottles to check. There are cabin walk around bottles
and the flight deck is bottled O2, but passengers are not. Remember
the Valujet crash. The initiating event was a cargo bay/cabin fire casued
by
improperly shipped O2 generators igniting in flight.

"pbc76049" wrote
Most passenger O2 systems use chemically generated O2.
There are no bottles to check.

Depends on the age of the B-737. Boeing used pax bottles
for a long time. But this is immaterial to the discussion
of why the pilots did not have O2.

Bob Moore
ATP B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

"pbc76049" wrote in message
...
Most passenger O2 systems use chemically generated O2.
There are no bottles to check. There are cabin walk around bottles
and the flight deck is bottled O2, but passengers are not. Remember
the Valujet crash. The initiating event was a cargo bay/cabin fire casued
by
improperly shipped O2 generators igniting in flight.


Even if the passengers have chemically generated O2, the pilots have O2 from
a bottle. Pilots are required (and most do) check their O2 before take-off.
The chemically generated O2 units cannot be turned off once in use and then
must be replaced. Therefore pilot positions have bottled O2.

Duane

"Bob Moore" wrote in message

My thoughts on yesterday's accident.

My thoughts were tending in the same direction, Bob. Speculation on the
availability of O2, or the system integrity, is fine, but the first and most
obvious question to me was as to why the airplane was still at altitude.
Job 1, superceding all others, is to get the craft to breathable air. What
was going on? All it takes is one body in the cockpit to initiate the
descent.

JG