Landing Checklist

At 15:24 06 January 2006, Jettester wrote:
Reference FAA Glider Flying Handbook (FAA-H-8083-13)
published in
2003...
page 7-34

FAA recommended checklist for the traffic pattern
FUSTALL

F - Flaps (on some gliders you may not want to change
the flaps
throughout the pattern due to high forces)
U - Undercarriage
S - Speeds (based upon wind and sink expected)
T - Trim Set
A - Airbrakes / Spoilers (I have had occurrences where
one popped all
the way out when first opened.. I'd like to know that
on downwind!
(ASW-17 .. Yes the hotelier fittings were pinned!!),
also on the 2-33 -
if the handle goes all the way back against the stop
the brake will not
work, etc..)
L - Lookout (Safe landing area.. otherwise land somewhere
else)
L - Land

I have over 4000 hrs in gliders of all kinds, probably
1/2 of that
instructing around the country, and am a test pilot
for many years. I
still mentally use a checklist, especially after long
(10hr+) flights.
The object is to train the student in preparation for
other ratings as
well. A checklist does not prevent one from using
judgement, rather ..
it is a tool.

By the way I flew F-4s (all models) for 20 yrs USAF.

I like your FUSTALL. One point about the spoilers,
once you crack em
open, don't lock em again or you are right back where
you started. The
good thing about aviation is, we haven't left one up
there yet. I guess the
last 'L' makes it official. You will land.
The first bragger has no chance. How about 21,000+
hrs in everything
from J3s H13s to B747-400s? Let's here it from all
those airline types.
Yeh,Yeh Big deal.
Chuck

I guess they will all serve their purpose, but I can
never understand checklists that include things that
you will do anyway. Speed - surely we don't need a
check to fly at the correct speed. Trim - don't we
all adjust the trim when we change attitude/speed.
Lookout and land - you're not telling us you wouldn't
lookout and check the landing area and actually land
without having it in a checklist? Checklists should,
IMO, only include things that you physically need to
do prior to landing. Waterballast should be in there,
you're more likely to need a reminder to dump it than
you are a reminder to do the things you should always
be doing anyway; like looking out, flying at an appropriate
speed and trimming.



At 15:24 06 January 2006, Jettester wrote:

FAA recommended checklist for the traffic pattern
FUSTALL

F - Flaps (on some gliders you may not want to change
the flaps
throughout the pattern due to high forces)
U - Undercarriage
S - Speeds (based upon wind and sink expected)
T - Trim Set
A - Airbrakes / Spoilers (I have had occurrences where
one popped all
the way out when first opened.. I'd like to know that
on downwind!
(ASW-17 .. Yes the hotelier fittings were pinned!!),
also on the 2-33 -
if the handle goes all the way back against the stop
the brake will not
work, etc..)
L - Lookout (Safe landing area.. otherwise land somewhere
else)
L - Land

"Mark Dickson" wrote in message
...
I guess they will all serve their purpose, but I can
never understand checklists that include things that
you will do anyway. Speed - surely we don't need a
check to fly at the correct speed. Trim - don't we
all adjust the trim when we change attitude/speed.
Lookout and land - you're not telling us you wouldn't
lookout and check the landing area and actually land
without having it in a checklist? Checklists should,
IMO, only include things that you physically need to
do prior to landing. Waterballast should be in there,
you're more likely to need a reminder to dump it than
you are a reminder to do the things you should always
be doing anyway; like looking out, flying at an appropriate
speed and trimming.

The above makes sense; but while we are at it, I feel that the landing
checklist should not include things that the glider does not need. When we
teach a new student a generic landing check such as USTALL or some such and
there is no handle in the glider marked "Undercarrage", then what are we really
teaching the student? Answer: we are teaching the student to mouth
"Undercarrage" and then do nothing! Given the law of primacy, we are setting
them up for a future wheels-up accident. For this reason, the landing checklist
should be specific to the glider and probably posted in the cockpit.

Vaughn





At 15:24 06 January 2006, Jettester wrote:

FAA recommended checklist for the traffic pattern
FUSTALL

F - Flaps (on some gliders you may not want to change
the flaps
throughout the pattern due to high forces)
U - Undercarriage
S - Speeds (based upon wind and sink expected)
T - Trim Set
A - Airbrakes / Spoilers (I have had occurrences where
one popped all
the way out when first opened.. I'd like to know that
on downwind!
(ASW-17 .. Yes the hotelier fittings were pinned!!),
also on the 2-33 -
if the handle goes all the way back against the stop
the brake will not
work, etc..)
L - Lookout (Safe landing area.. otherwise land somewhere
else)
L - Land

I agree with you, but the student, the tired pilot,
or de-hydrated pilot can view these items as permissions
to continue. Having said, and reviewed all the items
and 'Looked Out for traffic in every quarter, he can
give himself permission to go ahead and 'Land.'

I prefer 'Enter Pattern' at the end to assure that
all checks have been made beforehand, and the work
load is easier in the pattern.

At 21:24 06 January 2006, Mark Dickson wrote:
I guess they will all serve their purpose, but I can
never understand checklists that include things that
you will do anyway. Speed - surely we don't need a
check to fly at the correct speed. Trim - don't we
all adjust the trim when we change attitude/speed.
Lookout and land - you're not telling us you wouldn't
lookout and check the landing area and actually land
without having it in a checklist? Checklists should,
IMO, only include things that you physically need to
do prior to landing. Waterballast should be in there,
you're more likely to need a reminder to dump it than
you are a reminder to do the things you should always
be doing anyway; like looking out, flying at an appropriate
speed and trimming.



At 15:24 06 January 2006, Jettester wrote:

FAA recommended checklist for the traffic pattern
FUSTALL

F - Flaps (on some gliders you may not want to change
the flaps
throughout the pattern due to high forces)
U - Undercarriage
S - Speeds (based upon wind and sink expected)
T - Trim Set
A - Airbrakes / Spoilers (I have had occurrences where
one popped all
the way out when first opened.. I'd like to know that
on downwind!
(ASW-17 .. Yes the hotelier fittings were pinned!!),
also on the 2-33 -
if the handle goes all the way back against the stop
the brake will not
work, etc..)
L - Lookout (Safe landing area.. otherwise land somewhere
else)
L - Land

Speed - surely we don't need a check to fly at the correct speed.
It's a reminder to select a pattern and landing speed based on conditions as
you enter the pattern. THAT's a reminder to check the wind sock or other
cues to wind direction and speed. And a reminder to look at the whole
pattern to see if you need to adjust your speed to blend in with other
aircraft.

Trim - don't we all adjust the trim when we change attitude/speed.
Sometimes. Maybe I use trim less than others, but if I'm going in and out of
thermals for short periods, hunting, etc., I don't trim all that often. This
is a reminder to set the trim after selecting the pattern speed.

Lookout - not in the air around your aircraft, but at the landing field
and runway so you can plan whether to land left, right, short, long...

Land - yes, it's obvious, but it triggers me to think about alignment with
/ distance from the runway, how long my downwind will likely be, speed in
base and final turns, look at my starting altitude and think about spoilers
and perhaps slipping, remember wind gradient. In other words, focus my mind
on all those things that make landing different from cruising and
thermaling.

Maybe after thousands of hours, one doesn't need these reminders. For those
of us new to the game (I'm coming up on one year since getting my PPG), they
are important reminders to build good habits.

For those who earlier questioned WHEN to do the checklist, before or during
the patter, here's my usual sequence:

FUST - during the 45-degree leg. Speed and Trim are as I'm nearing the end
of the 45, getting ready to turn downwind, 'cuz that's about the time I can
finally make out the wind sock.

ALL - Airbrakes on downwind. Lookout on downwind, 'cuz then I'm adjacent to
the runway.

This way there's plenty of time to do all the steps - no rush. It sets me up
for a relaxed downwind leg.


"Mark Dickson" wrote in message
...
I guess they will all serve their purpose, but I can
never understand checklists that include things that
you will do anyway. Speed - surely we don't need a
check to fly at the correct speed. Trim - don't we
all adjust the trim when we change attitude/speed.
Lookout and land - you're not telling us you wouldn't
lookout and check the landing area and actually land
without having it in a checklist? Checklists should,
IMO, only include things that you physically need to
do prior to landing. Waterballast should be in there,
you're more likely to need a reminder to dump it than
you are a reminder to do the things you should always
be doing anyway; like looking out, flying at an appropriate
speed and trimming.



At 15:24 06 January 2006, Jettester wrote:

FAA recommended checklist for the traffic pattern
FUSTALL

F - Flaps (on some gliders you may not want to change
the flaps
throughout the pattern due to high forces)
U - Undercarriage
S - Speeds (based upon wind and sink expected)
T - Trim Set
A - Airbrakes / Spoilers (I have had occurrences where
one popped all
the way out when first opened.. I'd like to know that
on downwind!
(ASW-17 .. Yes the hotelier fittings were pinned!!),
also on the 2-33 -
if the handle goes all the way back against the stop
the brake will not
work, etc..)
L - Lookout (Safe landing area.. otherwise land somewhere
else)
L - Land

Nyal Williams wrote:
I agree with you, but the student, the tired pilot,
or de-hydrated pilot can view these items as permissions
to continue. Having said, and reviewed all the items
and 'Looked Out for traffic in every quarter, he can
give himself permission to go ahead and 'Land.'

I prefer 'Enter Pattern' at the end to assure that
all checks have been made beforehand, and the work
load is easier in the pattern.

USTALE ? Remind 'em to get a shower after landing too. ;-)

Shawn