Aviation Pioneers Return to Chicago Lakefront

Dave Stadt wrote:

In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for the
responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols and risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG


Could you please explain what is childish about landing a seaplane in the
water?

Lets see,
For starters this part of Lk. Mich. gets arr & dep traffic from ORD.
How responsible is it
to attempt a take off without telling FAA controllers? MDW traffic goes
over the southern portion of the lake, and the occasional Hooters
flight from Gary too.

And what if the take-off is faulty, how much boat traffic is in the
"crash zone"??

Those are the dumbest statements ever. One can fly up and down the lake
front 24 hours a day and not talk to anybody. Controllers won't talk to you
even if you want them to. It is not under airtraffic control. Boat traffic
in the middle of winter? Yea right. Even in the middle of summer boat
traffic is not a factor. You have obviously never seen Lake Michigan. If
the takeoff is faulty you land on the 333 mile long runway or the 85 mile
long cross runway.

Lets see ds, claims:
"Dave S.
2 years a pilot
15 years a competative Lake Michigan sailor"

So maybe you traveled this part of LM near north ave beach, maybe not.
But in the summer it IS crowded and anyone playing Chuck Yeager needs
to grow up.

Or have you forgotten the MIAMI WRECK ??

In article .com,
wrote:

Dave Stadt wrote:

In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for the
responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols and risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG


Could you please explain what is childish about landing a seaplane in the
water?

Lets see,
For starters this part of Lk. Mich. gets arr & dep traffic from ORD.
How responsible is it
to attempt a take off without telling FAA controllers? MDW traffic goes
over the southern portion of the lake, and the occasional Hooters
flight from Gary too.

And what if the take-off is faulty, how much boat traffic is in the
"crash zone"??

Those are the dumbest statements ever. One can fly up and down the lake
front 24 hours a day and not talk to anybody. Controllers won't talk to you
even if you want them to. It is not under airtraffic control. Boat traffic
in the middle of winter? Yea right. Even in the middle of summer boat
traffic is not a factor. You have obviously never seen Lake Michigan. If
the takeoff is faulty you land on the 333 mile long runway or the 85 mile
long cross runway.

Lets see ds, claims:
"Dave S.
2 years a pilot
15 years a competative Lake Michigan sailor"

So maybe you traveled this part of LM near north ave beach, maybe not.
But in the summer it IS crowded and anyone playing Chuck Yeager needs
to grow up.

Or have you forgotten the MIAMI WRECK ??

So? How is that relevant? The ignorant "jgrove" attempts to pronounce
knowledge on aviation safety, but he is more like a representative of
the streetwalkers union promoting chastity.

--
Remve "_" from email to reply to me personally.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave Stadt wrote:

In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for the
responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols and
risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG


Could you please explain what is childish about landing a seaplane in
the
water?

Lets see,
For starters this part of Lk. Mich. gets arr & dep traffic from ORD.
How responsible is it
to attempt a take off without telling FAA controllers? MDW traffic goes
over the southern portion of the lake, and the occasional Hooters
flight from Gary too.

And what if the take-off is faulty, how much boat traffic is in the
"crash zone"??

Those are the dumbest statements ever. One can fly up and down the lake
front 24 hours a day and not talk to anybody. Controllers won't talk to
you
even if you want them to. It is not under airtraffic control. Boat
traffic
in the middle of winter? Yea right. Even in the middle of summer boat
traffic is not a factor. You have obviously never seen Lake Michigan.
If
the takeoff is faulty you land on the 333 mile long runway or the 85 mile
long cross runway.

Lets see ds, claims:
"Dave S.
2 years a pilot
15 years a competative Lake Michigan sailor"

So maybe you traveled this part of LM near north ave beach, maybe not.
But in the summer it IS crowded and anyone playing Chuck Yeager needs
to grow up.

Or have you forgotten the MIAMI WRECK ??


Two years a pilot? I think not. Don't know where you get your information
but I suspect it is from a place which does not see sunshine. In the summer
it is NOT crowded. If you want to see crowded go up to the Chain of Lakes
or Lake Geneva and guess what? There are a number of float plane ops there
with nary an incident even though a significant number of the boat operators
are several sheets to the wind.

What's this about Miami?

"Dave Stadt" wrote in
:


wrote in message
oups.com...

Dave Stadt wrote:

In conclusion, this "stunt" served as either a training run for
the responders, or a grossly
childish stunt that caused responders to drop normal patrols
and risk
collisions in a rushed
response to a "aircraft down"....JG


Could you please explain what is childish about landing a
seaplane in the
water?

Lets see,
For starters this part of Lk. Mich. gets arr & dep traffic from
ORD. How responsible is it
to attempt a take off without telling FAA controllers? MDW traffic
goes over the southern portion of the lake, and the occasional
Hooters flight from Gary too.

And what if the take-off is faulty, how much boat traffic is in
the "crash zone"??

Those are the dumbest statements ever. One can fly up and down the
lake front 24 hours a day and not talk to anybody. Controllers
won't talk to you
even if you want them to. It is not under airtraffic control. Boat
traffic
in the middle of winter? Yea right. Even in the middle of summer
boat traffic is not a factor. You have obviously never seen Lake
Michigan. If
the takeoff is faulty you land on the 333 mile long runway or the 85
mile long cross runway.

Lets see ds, claims:
"Dave S.
2 years a pilot
15 years a competative Lake Michigan sailor"

So maybe you traveled this part of LM near north ave beach, maybe
not. But in the summer it IS crowded and anyone playing Chuck Yeager
needs to grow up.

Or have you forgotten the MIAMI WRECK ??


Two years a pilot? I think not. Don't know where you get your
information but I suspect it is from a place which does not see
sunshine. In the summer it is NOT crowded. If you want to see
crowded go up to the Chain of Lakes or Lake Geneva and guess what?
There are a number of float plane ops there with nary an incident even
though a significant number of the boat operators are several sheets
to the wind.

What's this about Miami?






jgrove24 is just displaying his ingornace of what DOI means in the FAA
data base.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

wrote in message
oups.com...

Lets see,
For starters this part of Lk. Mich. gets arr & dep traffic from ORD.


No part of Lake Michigan gets arrival and departure traffic from ORD.



How responsible is it
to attempt a take off without telling FAA controllers?


It's completely responsible. FAA controllers have no interest in seaplane
operations there.



MDW traffic goes
over the southern portion of the lake, and the occasional Hooters
flight from Gary too.


Much traffic goes over the lake. None of it is a factor for seaplane
operations on the lake.



And what if the take-off is faulty, how much boat traffic is in the
"crash zone"??


What is the "crash zone"? Boats do not have any more right to operate on
the lake than do seaplanes.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:c7BCf.1299$Ix.335@trnddc07...

Perfectly responsible. Even very close to ORD, the controlled airspace
only goes down to 3,000'.


Ehh? Very close to ORD the controlled airspace goes down to the surface.
None of that surface is Lake Michigan, however.



In other words, there's over 2,300' of airspace
above the lake that's uncontrolled.


Along most of the Illinois Lake Michigan shoreline controlled airspace
begins at 700' AGL.

wrote in message
oups.com...

So maybe you traveled this part of LM near north ave beach, maybe not.
But in the summer it IS crowded and anyone playing Chuck Yeager needs
to grow up.


Playing Chuck Yeager? What does that mean? Boat traffic needs to lookout
for seaplane traffic. The seaplane traffic is already looking out for boat
traffic and has as much right to operate on the lake as boat traffic does.



Or have you forgotten the MIAMI WRECK ??


Miami wreck?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Ehh? Very close to ORD the controlled airspace goes down to the surface.
None of that surface is Lake Michigan, however.

Then it would be pretty hard for a seaplane to be taking off there, wouldn't it.

Along most of the Illinois Lake Michigan shoreline controlled airspace
begins at 700' AGL.

I've got the sectional right in front of me. The class B floor is 3,000' or
higher over the lake. Now, you can be an asshole and try to pick nits if you
like, but THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR THAT SEAPLANE TO TALK TO THE ORD
CONTROLLERS PRIOR TO THAT TAKEOFF, NOR WOULD THE ORD CONTROLLERS WANT TO HEAR
FROM HIM.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:z8WCf.546$OY4.296@trndny02...

Then it would be pretty hard for a seaplane to be taking off there,
wouldn't it.


No, an amphibious seaplane could takeoff from ORD quite easily.



I've got the sectional right in front of me. The class B floor is 3,000'
or higher over the lake.


Good. Look at the shoreline and move your gaze about ten miles east.
You'll find magenta vignette there roughly parallel to the shoreline. Now
examine the chart legend to discover what magenta vignette means, you'll
find it in the lower left.

You wrote:

"Perfectly responsible. Even very close to ORD, the controlled airspace only
goes down to 3,000'. In other words, there's over 2,300' of airspace above
the lake
that's uncontrolled. It would actually be irresponsible to try to talk to
ORD;
the controllers there are some of the busiest people in the world, and they
have
no desire to talk with aircraft that are outside their area and intend to
remain so."

You said nothing about Class B airspace.



Now, you can be an asshole and try to pick nits if you like, but THERE'S
NO REQUIREMENT FOR THAT SEAPLANE TO TALK TO THE ORD CONTROLLERS PRIOR TO
THAT TAKEOFF, NOR WOULD THE ORD CONTROLLERS WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM.


That's correct, but do you now understand that controlled airspace begins at
700' above the lake surface, not at 2300' above it? I'd be happy to give
you further lessons in controlled airspace and chart reading if you like.

George Patterson wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Ehh? Very close to ORD the controlled airspace goes down to the surface.
None of that surface is Lake Michigan, however.

Then it would be pretty hard for a seaplane to be taking off there, wouldn't it.

Along most of the Illinois Lake Michigan shoreline controlled airspace
begins at 700' AGL.

I've got the sectional right in front of me. The class B floor is 3,000' or
higher over the lake. Now, you can be an asshole and try to pick nits if you
like, but THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT FOR THAT SEAPLANE TO TALK TO THE ORD
CONTROLLERS PRIOR TO THAT TAKEOFF, NOR WOULD THE ORD CONTROLLERS WANT TO HEAR
FROM HIM.

From a practical matter, does the seaplane have any duty to radio that
they're taking off? What about any traffic flying in back of the
seaplane, in blind spots? And ORD arr. and dep. traffic appears lower
than 3000'
near the Chicago shore.

JG