Glider Crash - Minden?

I've just started flying with a Mode C transponder and have been
alerted a couple of times of approaching traffic when it started
replying to frequent interrogations. I was able to locate these
aircraft visually. Clearly an alert system would be an inexpensive and
valuable asset.

Having the right of way in a glider is about as useful as having right
of way in a sailboat when you're about to be run over by a mega
container ship (which has also happened to me). Large aircraft (and
vessels) just might not see you and, even if they do, can't avoid you
becasue of their mass and speed. I'd just like to steer clear of
conflict, which includes alerting others to my presence and learning
about theirs.

Good grief, there are still folks in the USA (including some well-known
glider FBOs) that fly without radios, let alone transponders.

Mike

Flarm is, Flarm to Flarm. Up to now it is mainly fitted to gliders,
practically universal in the European Alps, and widely fitted in Australia.
In the Swiss Alps it is also fitted to rescue helicopters, partly because of
its obstacle database.

ADS-B out can be read by ADS-B in.

In Australia they are working on the idea that an enhancement to ADS-B
could enable it to read Flarm, and an enhancement to Flarm could enable it
to read ADS-B.

This is why things may improve when Mode A/C and Mode S are phased out in
favour of ADS-B.

In Australia Flarm is built under licence (OzFlarm), there are other
licensees. Is there nobody interested in doing this in the USA ? It
would surely be ideal for any light aircraft. I understand that there is
an add-on to Flarm which can sound a signal in headphones.

Remember, Modes A/C and S are only transmitted when the Transponder is
triggered by an interrogation. Flarm and ADS-B transmit regularly without
having to be triggered.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"kirk.stant" wrote in message
ups.com...


Ramy wrote:
Meanwhile, at least in the US, our only option is the 30 years
old technology of transponders, which are relatively affordable for
most pilots I see flying at the Reno area.


snip

TPAS is a good solution, since it warns you of someone else tooling
around with his xponder on. ADS-B would be nice, if
affordable/practicable in a glider. FLARM is pretty much only
glider-to-glider, and requires active participation (and is a moot
point in the US anyway, at present).

snip

Kirk
66

Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

In the AF we called it clearing your flightpath. Everything else is
secondary at jet speeds.

Good job getting the jet and it's valuable pax back unharmed. Love the
pic of the glider spar in the radome! But I would love to hear the
crew admit they were heads-down at the time of the collision, if that
is what really happened.

Of course, I could be totally wrong - sun, bugs on the canopy, etc...
And this assumes the glider was actually turning, of course.

Well, it's better than trying to take off on the wrong runway,
anyway...

Check 6, guys! (and 9, and 3, and 12, and...)

Kirk
66

kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Must be nice to walk on water!

kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

In the AF we called it clearing your flightpath. Everything else is
secondary at jet speeds.

Good job getting the jet and it's valuable pax back unharmed. Love the
pic of the glider spar in the radome! But I would love to hear the
crew admit they were heads-down at the time of the collision, if that
is what really happened.

Of course, I could be totally wrong - sun, bugs on the canopy, etc...
And this assumes the glider was actually turning, of course.

Well, it's better than trying to take off on the wrong runway,
anyway...

Check 6, guys! (and 9, and 3, and 12, and...)

Kirk
66

reports are the ASG29 had a transponder..
so now what are we going to enforce..
BT

"Ramy Yanetz" wrote in message
om...
A miracle. Did the ASG 29 used a transponder? Assuming not, I am wondering
if he could not afford one...
This is not good as there are elections going on in NV right now and
you know some moron politician is going to try to make the skies
safer!!
Maybe by enforcing the use of transponders in the Reno area? I don't see a
problem with that...

Ramy

wrote in message
ups.com...
Rumor control here...

Challenger 800X with 5 on board on route to Reno from San Diego
collided with an ASG29 around 16,000ft east on Minden on the Pinenut
mountains.

The Jet landed gear up at Carson City the pilot sustaining minor
injuries in the initial impact.

The Glider Pilot bailed and landed ok.

Look at KRNV.com or RGJ.com for more info.

This is not good as there are elections going on in NV right now and
you know some moron politician is going to try to make the skies
safer!!

Later

Al


Mitch wrote:
Heard there may have been a glider - biz jet crash in Minden? True or
False?

-EX

Are there any low cost ADS-B units available?

Mike Schumann

"W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.)." wrote in message
...
Flarm is, Flarm to Flarm. Up to now it is mainly fitted to gliders,
practically universal in the European Alps, and widely fitted in
Australia.
In the Swiss Alps it is also fitted to rescue helicopters, partly because
of
its obstacle database.

ADS-B out can be read by ADS-B in.

In Australia they are working on the idea that an enhancement to ADS-B
could enable it to read Flarm, and an enhancement to Flarm could enable it
to read ADS-B.

This is why things may improve when Mode A/C and Mode S are phased out in
favour of ADS-B.

In Australia Flarm is built under licence (OzFlarm), there are other
licensees. Is there nobody interested in doing this in the USA ? It
would surely be ideal for any light aircraft. I understand that there is
an add-on to Flarm which can sound a signal in headphones.

Remember, Modes A/C and S are only transmitted when the Transponder is
triggered by an interrogation. Flarm and ADS-B transmit regularly
without
having to be triggered.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.


"kirk.stant" wrote in message
ups.com...


Ramy wrote:
Meanwhile, at least in the US, our only option is the 30 years
old technology of transponders, which are relatively affordable for
most pilots I see flying at the Reno area.


snip

TPAS is a good solution, since it warns you of someone else tooling
around with his xponder on. ADS-B would be nice, if
affordable/practicable in a glider. FLARM is pretty much only
glider-to-glider, and requires active participation (and is a moot
point in the US anyway, at present).

snip

Kirk
66

The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots.

Mike Schumann

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

BTIZ wrote:
reports are the ASG29 had a transponder..
so now what are we going to enforce..

Maybe using it? I don't think it's been confirmed the transponder was
operating, but I'm sure ATC knows, and should have the tapes to prove it.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

Is that an appropriate and prudent speed to fly in an area know for soaring?

"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
nk.net...
The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to see converging traffic
that is approaching at 200-300 knots.

Mike Schumann

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
news:Zn6Jg.3900$nR2.1435@trnddc03...
kirk.stant wrote:
Hmm, the glider is thermalling - probably the easiest thing in the air
to see from another aircraft approaching.

So much for professional pilots looking out the window.

If the glider had been cruising I could understand it. I've lost
gliders I've been following when I knew where they were. But there is
little excuse in a two-crew cockpit to miss something as substantial as
an 18 meter glider thermalling in front of you!

A thermalling glider should be able to see approaching aircraft more
easily, too. Quite different from being run down by a faster aircraft
coming up behind. We probably shouldn't be too smug at this point, until
we know the facts for sure.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"