Beech duchess comments?

It looks as if because they added (known ice) after the 58 that only the
58's are certified for known ice. But if you look at the other listings,
they itemize the models not certified for known ice by placing them in a
separate line. The way it reads to me is that the B55, C-D-E55, AND the 58
are eligible for the STC.

http://www.aopa.org/pilot/bonanza/010419commentary.html says that if these
systems have dual electric pumps for redundancy, they may be eligible for
known ice certification. Flight into known-ice certification is available
when the TKS system is installed on the Commander 114B and 114TC; all of the
Cessna 210 models earlier mentioned; Aero Commander 500B, 500U, and 500S
models; Beech Baron B55, C, D, E, 55, and 58 models, and Mooney M20K, M, R,
and M20S models.

Jim Burns

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
Try looking a little harder- Flight Ice in St. Louis does the
installations on all of the Barons and I think the Caravans. Some of the
installations have known ice certification.

Jim:

Yes, the STC, placards, and POH supplement all describe the known ice
certification. As I recall, some of the requirements include an ice light,
heated stall warning device, and the redundant windshield and wing pumps.
The Flight Ice web site describes the installations in more detail. They did
a great job, and had super support.

It works great- the airframe won't pick up any ice (although antennas and
the nose along with any other unprotected areas will). It is not fool proof,
and can be overcome in severe conditions, but will provide a way out.

The major downsides are the initial cost of installation (nearly double that
of boots), as well as the cost of the fluid. However, there is no need for
the big vacuum pumps, or the need to replace boots/pumps, or maintain hot
props or hot plates.

It also makes a slimy slippery mess on the hangar floor. I collect the
overflow from filling and spray it on the plane with a garden sprayer if
there is any potential for icing after takeoff.

I use it all the time in the winter, and for me it was a better choice than
boots, particularly with the known ice certification.

Viperdoc wrote:

I use it all the time in the winter, and for me it was a better choice than
boots, particularly with the known ice certification.

My Bonanza has the non-certified version of the TKS system and it works
very well. I buy a 55 gallon drum of the TKS solution from a place in
Washington state (IIRC) and so far this drum has provided three seasons'
usage of fluid. The Bonanza's fluid tank is 7.5 gallons, which translates
to about 3.5 hours at the anti-ice setting.

What is your usage and how much fluid does your Baron hold?

--
Peter

SOME Barons do, the newer 58 and the out of production 58TC
and 58P.

I looked very carefully at the Weeping wings webpages, the
FAA STC for that company and the Beech [Raytheon] TCDS for
the Baron 3A16 and only some, as you said, are certified.
Only about 120 B55 Barons are eligible for known ice.

The Cessna Caravan 208, is a new airplane built under the
latest Part 23 rules, it is certified for known ice,
otherwise FedEx would not have bought so many.

But the OP said "his Baron B55 was certified for known ice"
and if you look carefully at the company website, they
install the system only for "safety of flight." See
www.weepingwings.com on the Investment link.


"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
| Try looking a little harder- Flight Ice in St. Louis does
the installations
| on all of the Barons and I think the Caravans. Some of the
installations
| have known ice certification.
|
|

The STC only shows that the airplane still flies OK. Old
FAA rules did not require a placard "Flight in icing
conditions prohibited" so those airplanes with that placard
limitation that get the full kit might be legal to fly under
FAR91 into forecast ice. But remember the airplanes that
are certified are using the IO 550 engine and the older
airplanes are using IO 470 and IO 520 engines. The IO550
that Beech uses are guaranteed to produce a minimum power,
but might produce 15% more than the rated power. Older
engines were certified to produce +/- 10%.

Key word in what you stated below, "may." I looked at then
FAA list of all STC for the company mentioned by the OP, and
strangely enough, they do not list the Baron. Their
approval is by following the Beech TC and only about 120
Barons other than the 58 say "known icing."


"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
| It looks as if because they added (known ice) after the 58
that only the
| 58's are certified for known ice. But if you look at the
other listings,
| they itemize the models not certified for known ice by
placing them in a
| separate line. The way it reads to me is that the B55,
C-D-E55, AND the 58
| are eligible for the STC.
|
| http://www.aopa.org/pilot/bonanza/010419commentary.html
says that if these
| systems have dual electric pumps for redundancy, they may
be eligible for
| known ice certification. Flight into known-ice
certification is available
| when the TKS system is installed on the Commander 114B and
114TC; all of the
| Cessna 210 models earlier mentioned; Aero Commander 500B,
500U, and 500S
| models; Beech Baron B55, C, D, E, 55, and 58 models, and
Mooney M20K, M, R,
| and M20S models.
|
| Jim Burns
|
| "Viperdoc" wrote in message
| ...
| Try looking a little harder- Flight Ice in St. Louis
does the
| installations on all of the Barons and I think the
Caravans. Some of the
| installations have known ice certification.
|
|
|

Do me a favor, list the STC/TC number so I can find it,
couldn't anything on the company or FAA web sites and I
looked at every page.



"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
| Jim:
|
| Yes, the STC, placards, and POH supplement all describe
the known ice
| certification. As I recall, some of the requirements
include an ice light,
| heated stall warning device, and the redundant windshield
and wing pumps.
| The Flight Ice web site describes the installations in
more detail. They did
| a great job, and had super support.
|
| It works great- the airframe won't pick up any ice
(although antennas and
| the nose along with any other unprotected areas will). It
is not fool proof,
| and can be overcome in severe conditions, but will provide
a way out.
|
| The major downsides are the initial cost of installation
(nearly double that
| of boots), as well as the cost of the fluid. However,
there is no need for
| the big vacuum pumps, or the need to replace boots/pumps,
or maintain hot
| props or hot plates.
|
| It also makes a slimy slippery mess on the hangar floor. I
collect the
| overflow from filling and spray it on the plane with a
garden sprayer if
| there is any potential for icing after takeoff.
|
| I use it all the time in the winter, and for me it was a
better choice than
| boots, particularly with the known ice certification.
|
|
|

I recall that on a B55 Baron I flew had alcohol windshield
and props. If you just ran the props it was good for an
hour or two [3.0 gallons] but less than 1/2 an hour if you
ran the windshield and it was NOT a deicing fluid, it was to
be run as anti-ice and turn off before landing because you
could not see through it.



"Peter R." wrote in message
...
| Viperdoc wrote:
|
| I use it all the time in the winter, and for me it was a
better choice than
| boots, particularly with the known ice certification.
|
| My Bonanza has the non-certified version of the TKS system
and it works
| very well. I buy a 55 gallon drum of the TKS solution
from a place in
| Washington state (IIRC) and so far this drum has provided
three seasons'
| usage of fluid. The Bonanza's fluid tank is 7.5 gallons,
which translates
| to about 3.5 hours at the anti-ice setting.
|
| What is your usage and how much fluid does your Baron
hold?
|
| --
| Peter

The Baron holds 6.5 gallons in a tank that replaces the old alcohol tank in
the nose. It lasts 2.5 hours.

Did you look up and search under Flight Ice? They have locations in St.
Louis Downtown airport and Florida. All Baron installations are known ice
and are not done in Salina by AS and T, but are done in by Flight Ice. Their
web site has a better description. Keep looking.

I looked it up, did not see any reference to STC numbers. I
saw claims on a web site that has not been updated in nearly
3 years. But maybe there is more than one Flight Ice site?

In any case, it is the aircraft owner and the pilot who must
be sure they have the correct paperwork to do what the
salesman told /sold them.


The original post references Salina and the other company as
the STC holder. When I have more reasons to do more
research on retro-fit ice systems, I would certainly keep
TKS in mind. But there are other systems.


"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
| Did you look up and search under Flight Ice? They have
locations in St.
| Louis Downtown airport and Florida. All Baron
installations are known ice
| and are not done in Salina by AS and T, but are done in by
Flight Ice. Their
| web site has a better description. Keep looking.
|
|