Ferrying Aircraft

Stubby wrote:
I don't have a FAR/AIM here, but I do seem to remember there are a
number of exceptions that allow things such as ferrying planes, flying
around political candidates, and humanitarian work such as delivering
patients. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the following is the relevant regulation:

§ 61.113 Private pilot privileges and limitations: Pilot in command.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) through (g) of this section, no
person who holds a private pilot certificate may act as pilot in command
of an aircraft that is carrying passengers or property for compensation
or hire; nor may that person, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in
command of an aircraft.

(b) A private pilot may, for compensation or hire, act as pilot in
command of an aircraft in connection with any business or employment if:

(1) The flight is only incidental to that business or employment; and

(2) The aircraft does not carry passengers or property for compensation
or hire.

(c) A private pilot may not pay less than the pro rata share of the
operating expenses of a flight with passengers, provided the expenses
involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees.

(d) A private pilot may act as pilot in command of an aircraft used in a
passenger-carrying airlift sponsored by a charitable organization
described in paragraph (d)(7) of this section, and for which the
passengers make a donation to the organization, when the following
requirements are met:

(1) The sponsor of the airlift notifies the FAA Flight Standards District
Office with jurisdiction over the area concerned at least 7 days before
the event and furnishes—

(i) A signed letter from the sponsor that shows the name of the sponsor,
the purpose of the charitable event, the date and time of the event, and
the location of the event; and

(ii) A photocopy of each pilot in command's pilot certificate, medical
certificate, and logbook entries that show the pilot is current in
accordance with §§61.56 and 61.57 of this part and has logged at least
200 hours of flight time.

(2) The flight is conducted from a public airport that is adequate for
the aircraft to be used, or from another airport that has been approved
by the FAA for the operation.

(3) No aerobatic or formation flights are conducted.

(4) Each aircraft used for the charitable event holds a standard
airworthiness certificate.

(5) Each aircraft used for the charitable event is airworthy and complies
with the applicable requirements of subpart E of part 91 of this chapter.

(6) Each flight for the charitable event is made during day VFR
conditions.

(7) The charitable organization is an organization identified as such by
the U.S. Department of Treasury.

(e) A private pilot may be reimbursed for aircraft operating expenses
that are directly related to search and location operations, provided the
expenses involve only fuel, oil, airport expenditures, or rental fees,
and the operation is sanctioned and under the direction and control of:

(1) A local, State, or Federal agency; or

(2) An organization that conducts search and location operations.

(f) A private pilot who is an aircraft salesman and who has at least 200
hours of logged flight time may demonstrate an aircraft in flight to a
prospective buyer.

(g) A private pilot who meets the requirements of §61.69 may act as a
pilot in command of an aircraft towing a glider or unpowered ultralight
vehicle.

Sylvain schrieb:

An instrument rating is defintely not required.

it is required if you intend to fly above 6000 feet
in the NAT region;

An instrument rating is also required if you intend to fly above 18000ft
in USA airspace, so what's your point? Fact is, you *can* cross the
atlantic VFR. And it has been done so many times.


Stefan

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I'm not sure what you base that on. The courts have ruled that logging
free flight time is commercial and requires a commercial rating.

-Robert, CFII



But there is no requirement that you must log every flight, and even if
you did log such flight there is no requirement to show this
information anyone except what is required to prove currency.

The problem will happen if you put yourself out for hire. If you post
an ad to ferry planes, clearly you are commerical. However, if a friend
happens to need his plane moved you should be ok as a private.
Insurance will be another thing.

-Robert


Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:

But there is no requirement that you must log every flight, and even if
you did log such flight there is no requirement to show this
information anyone except what is required to prove currency.

Jim Macklin wrote:
But all the Cessna pilots were IR. The company just didn't
want them to be flying IFR.

I'm sure its a job requirement, because it can be. There is no national
shortage for single engine Cessna drivers. When there are more pilots
than jobs you can be picky.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
The problem will happen if you put yourself out for hire. If you post
an ad to ferry planes, clearly you are commerical. However, if a friend
happens to need his plane moved you should be ok as a private.
Insurance will be another thing.

I've had this happen before... Quite a few years ago, a buddy of mine bought
a new plane, although he was still workiing on his PPL... I flew up to the
seller's location with him via Southwest and then I flew it back to HOU...
As a student pilot, he was definitely not PIC... It wasn't a commercial
endeavor nor did I consider the logging of the flight time to be any sort of
compensation -- it was just helping out a buddy... Hell, when I needed my
plane moved from Iowa back down to Houston, he did it for me since he was
already up there for Oshkosh anyway and it saved me a trip via commercial
airline doing the shuffle myself... Regardless of what is written in the
FARs, I don't think a friend helping out a friend in such a situation should
be classified as a commercial flight...

It all comes down to who looks and what that person{faa} deems as
payment. If you advertise as a ferry pilot you need a comercial period.
If you are just helping a buddy move an airplane a private is fine
because you are not "holding out" or receiveing payment. I also say
lets have some common sense here people if you think that a brand new
private pilot should be moving airplanes all over the country with
little or no experience is just silly. I have pilots that have in
excess of 200-300 hrs but have never left the state. In this day and
age of TFR's and the crazy weather that we seem to be having these
days. Please take your time and plan everything well. I think this
takes the training that a commercial rating{preferably IFR rated}
supplies.

Matt Tiberii
Comm ASEL AMEL ASES INSTRUMENT
CFI CFII



Grumman-581 wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...
The problem will happen if you put yourself out for hire. If you post
an ad to ferry planes, clearly you are commerical. However, if a friend
happens to need his plane moved you should be ok as a private.
Insurance will be another thing.

I've had this happen before... Quite a few years ago, a buddy of mine bought
a new plane, although he was still workiing on his PPL... I flew up to the
seller's location with him via Southwest and then I flew it back to HOU...
As a student pilot, he was definitely not PIC... It wasn't a commercial
endeavor nor did I consider the logging of the flight time to be any sort of
compensation -- it was just helping out a buddy... Hell, when I needed my
plane moved from Iowa back down to Houston, he did it for me since he was
already up there for Oshkosh anyway and it saved me a trip via commercial
airline doing the shuffle myself... Regardless of what is written in the
FARs, I don't think a friend helping out a friend in such a situation should
be classified as a commercial flight...

Huck wrote:
It all comes down to who looks and what that person{faa} deems as
payment. If you advertise as a ferry pilot you need a comercial period.
If you are just helping a buddy move an airplane a private is fine
because you are not "holding out" or receiveing payment. I also say
lets have some common sense here people if you think that a brand new
private pilot should be moving airplanes all over the country with
little or no experience is just silly. I have pilots that have in
excess of 200-300 hrs but have never left the state. In this day and
age of TFR's and the crazy weather that we seem to be having these
days. Please take your time and plan everything well. I think this
takes the training that a commercial rating{preferably IFR rated}
supplies.

Matt Tiberii
Comm ASEL AMEL ASES INSTRUMENT
CFI CFII




I agree with you for the most part, but except for TFR's I don't think
weather is any worse nowadays than it used to be. In fact, we have much
better tools for weather avoidance and navigation than in the past, so
all other things being equal a pilot is better equipped and safer today
for a ferry trip than in the past. However, that does not mean that a
newly minted PP should attempt such a thing.

You are sooooo correct in dealing with weather I would bot even think
of going cross counrty without my 496. It is so awsome, I brought a
C-210T back to SC from tulsa last tues night and it was an integal part
of making a go/nogo descision plus with O2 you can go 25000 in t210 so
we were able to go all the way back without even getting wet.
I take it back I would still do it without the weather but i would
have had to stop and double check front lines and so on and so forth
ATC will help tremendously but I feel it is still the PIC's duty to not
get into a position were ATC needs to help if it can be avoided.
{sometimes it cant} Well good luck to all!
matty
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Huck wrote:
It all comes down to who looks and what that person{faa} deems as
payment. If you advertise as a ferry pilot you need a comercial period.
If you are just helping a buddy move an airplane a private is fine
because you are not "holding out" or receiveing payment. I also say
lets have some common sense here people if you think that a brand new
private pilot should be moving airplanes all over the country with
little or no experience is just silly. I have pilots that have in
excess of 200-300 hrs but have never left the state. In this day and
age of TFR's and the crazy weather that we seem to be having these
days. Please take your time and plan everything well. I think this
takes the training that a commercial rating{preferably IFR rated}
supplies.

Matt Tiberii
Comm ASEL AMEL ASES INSTRUMENT
CFI CFII




I agree with you for the most part, but except for TFR's I don't think
weather is any worse nowadays than it used to be. In fact, we have much
better tools for weather avoidance and navigation than in the past, so
all other things being equal a pilot is better equipped and safer today
for a ferry trip than in the past. However, that does not mean that a
newly minted PP should attempt such a thing.