Stucdent Pilot PIC Time

As evidenced by this thread, there is controversy as to what is loggable and
what is not.

To clarify the question is post solo, sole manipulator, & sole occupant
adequate to allow logging as pic?

There are many flight schools (Flight Safety for one) that do not allow any
pic time to be logged until the day of the checkride.

So, that begs another question, what is the thinking that justifies no
logging of pic time when dual is being logged, post solo, pre checkride??

WLS

"William Snow" wrote in message
. ..
As evidenced by this thread, there is controversy as to what is loggable
and what is not.

Not with regard to the original question. A couple of people made hasty
remarks that they did not try to defend when the relevant regulations were
cited in reply.

To clarify the question is post solo, sole manipulator, & sole occupant
adequate to allow logging as pic?

Being sole-manipulator is not adequate for a student pilot to log PIC time,
whether before or after solo. Being sole-occupant is adequate for a student
pilot to log PIC time (with a solo endorsement, of course).

There are many flight schools (Flight Safety for one) that do not allow
any pic time to be logged until the day of the checkride.

I don't understand. It's your logbook. How could a flight school prevent you
from logging time in it in accordance with the FARs?

So, that begs another question, what is the thinking that justifies no
logging of pic time when dual is being logged, post solo, pre checkride??

That's entirely different. When the flight is dual rather than solo, a
student pilot cannot log PIC time (although a private pilot can). The
thinking is that 61.51e4i says that a student pilot can only log PIC time
when the student is alone in the plane.

Perhaps I see where your uncertainty might be coming from. Note that the
three clauses (i, ii, and iii) of 61.51e4 are joined by an "and"; that is,
all three clauses have to be satisfied in order for a student pilot to log
PIC time. Your question about post-solo sole-manipulator time suggests that
you may be reading those clauses as though the "and" applied only to the
second two clauses, with an "or" joining those to the first clause. But
that's not the case.

--Gary

William Snow wrote:
As evidenced by this thread, there is controversy as to what is loggable and
what is not.

To clarify the question is post solo, sole manipulator, & sole occupant
adequate to allow logging as pic?

Yes. 100% no questions asked, yes.



There are many flight schools (Flight Safety for one) that do not allow any
pic time to be logged until the day of the checkride.

They are wrong. Period.

Gary Drescher wrote:
Right, but that's not what he asked; rather, he asked whether the time is
loggable as PIC time. *Being* PIC is not one of the conditions that entitles
you to log PIC time (61.51e).

Yeah, I should have been more clear about that - I definitely knew that
I *was* the PIC on the checkride, but I wasn't sure about logging it.
Sounds like we've got a few votes for logging it as PIC being accepted
practice even though the FARs are less than explicit.

thanks! happy to hear I don't have to let perfectly good PIC time go
to waste - I don't have very much to go around yet

todd.

William Snow wrote:

So, that begs another question, what is the thinking that justifies no
logging of pic time when dual is being logged, post solo, pre checkride??

Because nothing in the rules allow it. Post-solo is not any kind of
regulatory event. You can only be pilot in command on a student
certificate if you are the sole occupant of the aircraft (because
the student pilot limitations say you can't be PIC with passengers).

The rules for logging, say that recreational and better pilots
can log sole manipulator time (even when getting instruction) but
student pilots still have to be solo.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
William Snow wrote:

So, that begs another question, what is the thinking that justifies no
logging of pic time when dual is being logged, post solo, pre checkride??

Because nothing in the rules allow it.

It's worse than that--the rules explicitly *dis*allow it. That is, 61.51e4i
explicitly says that a student pilot can *only* log PIC time when the
student is the airplane's sole occupant.

--Gary