How many instruments can I use for VFR?

It IS amazing :-) I can't for the life of me figure out what makes some of
the answering posters so publicly angry with him. He's been here long enough
for everyone to get a good look at exactly what's going on.....at least it
seems clear enough to me, but I might be missing something the others are
catching. Hell, all people have to do is avoid him. You open your
reader.....he's there.....you move on to brighter pastures. I just don't get
all this "plonking" and "engagement" with him. He's posted under me several
times. I just move on to something more interesting....like watching the cat
sleep......or counting the threads in the hall carpet.....you know, more
exciting stuff like that. :-)
Those who answer him with useful information HAVE to notice the lack of
reciprocal appreciation for their time and effort....and this would be for
those he doesn't take on from a "superior knowledge base" after they answer
him :-)
Either he's a outright troll, or the most unappreciative and obnoxious
person I've ever come across on Usenet :-))
The real interesting thing in all this is that if he approached the people
on these groups in a different manner, I know from my own experience
watching aviation people over time, (not to mention being one of these
people myself) that as a group, they would never put down someone coming
here from a flight simulation venue to ask intelligent and pertinent real
world questions. This group just isn't that crass a bunch of folks. Hell, if
anything, most of the real world pilots on these groups would bend over
backwards to help someone who approached them in a friendly and appreciative
manner.
Anyway...for whatever the reason......its "been good for my appetite. I won
another "Outback Steak tonight!!!! :-))
Dudley Henriques

"mike regish" wrote in message
. ..
I love the replies that point out how MX is such a waste of time, while if
you did a count of the posts, a vast majority of them do nothing more than
jump down MX's throat. Talk about a waste of time.

But you're definitely right...it is entertaining. And I've even figured
out how to make my filters work.;-)

mike

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Don't sweat it Jamie. If you're at all interested in the psychology of
human behavior, the whole thing...the postings and the answers to the
postings are a hoot and a half :-)
The best way to handle it is simply to lay back and watch in the
background.
It actually makes my day really. I know many of the people who post here
from many years of exposure to their personalities and their knowledge of
aviation, which in many cases is quite extensive. The fun part is to
watch the thread start, then from simply viewing the names of those who
respond, take a mental shot at what the responders will be saying BEFORE
looking at the response. I'm getting quite good at it. My wife (the
psychologist) is REALLY good at it.
I have to admit however in my defense, that she so far is two "dinners at
the Outback"and a bottle of Jack Daniels down :-))))

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
:
Hell, all people have to do
is avoid him. You open your reader.....he's there.....you move on to
brighter pastures.

Dudley,

The above is the approach I have been taking just to do my part on
reducing the noise level.

I figure if we collectively "ignore him", then he will go away.

Those who answer him with useful information HAVE to notice the lack
of
reciprocal appreciation for their time and effort....and this would be
for those he doesn't take on from a "superior knowledge base" after
they answer him :-)
Either he's a outright troll, or the most unappreciative and obnoxious
person I've ever come across on Usenet :-))

The problem is that new comers like Jamie spent 10 minutes of his time
not knowing that Mx is trolling. So, my avenue of contributing will be
to let new comers know he is not a pilot and has no intention of flying a
real plane. And ignore the rest of the noise level. And I will never
directly reply to his postings, that's my commitment :-)

This group just isn't that crass a
bunch of folks. Hell, if anything, most of the real world pilots on
these groups would bend over backwards to help someone who approached
them in a friendly and appreciative manner.

You are absolutely right Dudley. The problem I have is that Mx is taking
simming to a unhealthy level. Asking questions like it's a life and
death situation when it's only a computer game. The way the questions
are presented, one would think he was flying a real plane, and the
answers are given accordingly. If his intent was to progress into the
real world of flight, I'd be first in line to help out, but when he goes
on the pretense it's real world in a sim world, that raised my dander.

Anyway...for whatever the reason......its "been good for my appetite.
I won another "Outback Steak tonight!!!! :-))

Dang, gonna have to watch those weight and balances are you not :-)

Allen

Gary Drescher writes:

It changes the motivation to provide an answer.

Why?

Your wording gave the impression that you have an impending
checkride, thus tricking a helpful person into spending time
assisting you with it.

I didn't say anything about an impending checkride, and readers have
their own interpretations, over which I have no control. And some
people may be willing to provide answers with or without an impending
checkride. Others just spend their time attacking their fellow human
beings.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"A Lieberma" wrote in message
. 18...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in
:
Hell, all people have to do
is avoid him. You open your reader.....he's there.....you move on to
brighter pastures.

Dudley,

The above is the approach I have been taking just to do my part on
reducing the noise level.

I figure if we collectively "ignore him", then he will go away.

Its a shame really. There's a world of good information on these groups for
someone with a good attitude. For someone as seemingly interested in flight
simmimg as this person is, to lose that to a bad attitude is just plain
tragic.

Those who answer him with useful information HAVE to notice the lack
of
reciprocal appreciation for their time and effort....and this would be
for those he doesn't take on from a "superior knowledge base" after
they answer him :-)
Either he's a outright troll, or the most unappreciative and obnoxious
person I've ever come across on Usenet :-))

The problem is that new comers like Jamie spent 10 minutes of his time
not knowing that Mx is trolling. So, my avenue of contributing will be
to let new comers know he is not a pilot and has no intention of flying a
real plane. And ignore the rest of the noise level. And I will never
directly reply to his postings, that's my commitment :-)

I wouldn't make any extra effort to do that aside from the occasional post
like this one that deals with him in a peripheral manner with a 3rd party.
Its just not worth your time really.

This group just isn't that crass a
bunch of folks. Hell, if anything, most of the real world pilots on
these groups would bend over backwards to help someone who approached
them in a friendly and appreciative manner.

You are absolutely right Dudley. The problem I have is that Mx is taking
simming to a unhealthy level. Asking questions like it's a life and
death situation when it's only a computer game. The way the questions
are presented, one would think he was flying a real plane, and the
answers are given accordingly. If his intent was to progress into the
real world of flight, I'd be first in line to help out, but when he goes
on the pretense it's real world in a sim world, that raised my dander.

Well...as some others have so correctly pointed out, some people only have a
simulator and can't fly for various reasons; but that's no excuse for
someone with this character's attitude
:-)
All these people have to do is approach a group like this one in a friendly
non-confrontational manner and they'll have pilots from students to CFI's
all over them trying to be of some help.
One thing's for sure. If this one's a troll, he's nailed a ton of otherwise
smart people, and if he's not a troll and just someone sincerely interested
in aviation, what he's done here is a tragedy of wasted time...both
his......and the groups'.

Anyway...for whatever the reason......its "been good for my appetite.
I won another "Outback Steak tonight!!!! :-))

Dang, gonna have to watch those weight and balances are you not :-)

Allen

That's the good thing about being retired. I don't have to fit into that
smaltsy flight suit with all the sponsor's patches on it any more. If I
guess what the poster answering him is going to say accurately enough, my
wife has to take me out to dinner. If I miss, I have to pay!! Tonight, its
an Outback Steak for me compliments of my wife and Bob Noel!!! :-)))
Dudley Henriques

Mxsmanic wrote:
How many instruments am I allowed to use for VFR flight (for purposes
of exams)? Is it okay to use VORs to find my way, or do I have to fly
exclusively using landmarks without any radionavigation?

You need to know how to use all those methods. Expect to have an
examiner or instructor disable various instruments so don't rely on
just one method. DeadRec and Pilotage are still required to be taught
for the private PTS as well.

-Robert, CFII

Cirrus wrote:
Thanks for thinking of me
I had no idea that this guy was going to waste my info. That was 10
minutes I could have spent doing something else...I'm new in these
forums, so thanks guys!

Your info wasn't wasted. I'm sure there were plenty of readers who
found something of interest in what you wrote, and appreciated it.

Never let anyone tell you whom to answer or not. All good posts aid
someone somewhere, sometime.

Kev

Tonight, its
an Outback Steak for me compliments of my wife and Bob Noel!!!

Seems like more interesting than the replies is your scorecard. Care to
share?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote in news:5J83h.1578$vP1.1221
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

Seems like more interesting than the replies is your scorecard. Care to
share?

Let me guess, Dudley and his wife would be betting on who would be the
first one to ask the above question. *cheshire grin*

Allen

The examiners that I have encountered are pilots - very good pilots - and
caring. They want us to succeed in each check ride. If things don't go well,
they are more likely to instruct than fold their burearcratic arms.

As for flying VFR... dead reckoning in the real world is easier than in a
sim. Landmarks are much more apparent and useful.

The approach is to plot a course using a sectional - including calculating a
magnetic heading that compensates for wind etc. Fly that heading and verify
your position using landmarks every 15 minutes or so. Don't fly to the next
landmark visually, correct your heading and fly that.

To your question of what instruments to use, it depends on what you are
trying to demonstrate. FAA PTS requires that you demonstrate the ability to
dead reckon as well as navigate using electronic navaids.

So, for dead reckoning, you need only the basic instruments to control the
plane, a clock and a magnetic compass. A directional gyro is also permitted
but you need to be adjusting it correctly with reference to the compass.

A VOR is the most basic instrument for using navaids. If that is all the
plane has, that is all you need to use. Typically, you are expected to
demonstrate mastery of any instrument in the plane.

--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Cirrus writes:

All these "replies", and I can see how you are still confused. It's
been a while since my Prive checkride, but be expected to demonstrate
pilotage, dead reckoning, and use of navaids. Notice on the PTS that
both areas are listed.

I looked in the FAA guide and it didn't unconfuse me much.

Flying for any distance with just landmarks or by dead reckoning would
be extremely awkward and potentially tiring (especially for dead
reckoning). I use something similar to that in many VFR flights, but
I still resort to VORs. With VORs you can mentally figure out things
and plot your course without having to do much in the way of
calculation. For example, in my last flight this afternoon I just
looked at the sectional and saw that when I was about 23 miles west of
the Imperial VOR on its 255 radial, I could turn to 295° towards the
Julian VOR and go northwest on the latter's 115 radial. No calculator
needed for that. Doing it by landmarks would be a lot more
troublesome.

The reality is that it will depend on your
examiner. Most VFR cross country flight will involve some combination
of navigation skills- you have to get on that airway somehow, right?
On your checkride, note your time when you takeoff, and explain to the
examiner how you are getting from the runway onto course. Make all your
turns from point A to point B, and update your flight log times as you
go.This might satisy him/her that you have the skills. You are the one
planning your cross country, so make sure you know what you have
planned- examiners have a sixth sense for knowing what you don't
know,lol.

Are examiners smarter than instructors? Are examiners experienced
pilots, or just bureaucrats, or what?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...
Tonight, its an Outback Steak for me compliments of my wife and Bob
Noel!!!

Seems like more interesting than the replies is your scorecard. Care to
share?

Tonight makes two dinners at Outback.....one on the Natalie's, and the other
on Bob Noel. The bottle of Jack Daniels is compliments of Blanche.....God
bless Blanche!!!! :-))
Dudley Henriques