Do sim pilots log their time?

Do sim pilots log their simulator time? Is so, why?

I know this post was meant tongue-in-cheek, but now that we've had the
"Kiwi" up and running for a few weeks (see it he
http://alexisparkinn.com/the_kiwi_is_born.htm ) I've had some good
experience watching real pilots "fly" a good simulator.

Interestingly, even though I personally find the sim experience to be
quite realistic, some of the best sticks I know have great difficulty
landing. One fellow in particular is inexplicably having no luck
landing the sim, despite thousands of hours of flight experience.

Just to illustrate his expertise as a pilot, he participated in the
National Air Tour in '04, and also in this past summer's Barnstormers
Tour. He flew wildlife-counting flights for the National Park Service
out West until last year, and has owned and flown literally dozens of
aircraft.

To say he is a "good stick" is an understatement.

Yet, even when I downloaded his current aircraft, and set him up at his
home airport, he was not able to land on the runway. The only thing I
can think of is that he apparently flies his real aircraft "by feel"
more than most of us do, and the simulator obviously is lacking in
"feel", since it is not a full-motion sim.

On the other hand, most average pilots have no difficulty landing. And
a fair number of non-pilots are able to do at least as well as the
fellow I describe, above, who always makes it to the airport but never
lands successfully on the runway.

It will be interesting to see if the new computer system I've ordered
-- which will help to make the sim experience as realistic as possible
-- helps the situation, or if it's strictly a motion-related problem
that can't be resolved.

And, no, I'm not logging the time in the Kiwi...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Sims do a decent job simulating instrument conditions and maybe some
other things, but they don't simulate landings realistically at all.
Even the most sophisticated sims dont simulate landings well. So it's
really irrelevant. I suspect the pilots who can land your sim well can
do so because they practiced with a sim, not a real airplane.

Sims do a decent job simulating instrument conditions and maybe some
other things, but they don't simulate landings realistically at all.
Even the most sophisticated sims dont simulate landings well. So it's
really irrelevant. I suspect the pilots who can land your sim well can
do so because they practiced with a sim, not a real airplane.

I think there's more to it than that. Some of our regulars on "Movie
Tuesday" are not computer literate at all, yet can land the Kiwi
without difficulty.

The same thing happened last weekend, during the annual meeting of the
99s (the International Organization of Women Pilots). The guys (known
as "49 1/2s") kicked the girls out of their own meeting room so that
we could fly the Kiwi while they held their meeting up in the (of
course!) Amelia Earhart Suite.

Many of the older guys in the group were completely computer ignorant
(several were rather proud of that fact, actually) -- yet most had no
trouble landing the sim.

I suspect success or failure says something about you, as a pilot, land
a real plane, rather than anything about the sim. In other words, if
you land a real plane more by sight-picture and numbers, you'll
probably have no trouble landing the Kiwi -- but if you land a plane
more by "feel", you'll likely not have good luck in the sim.

I honestly don't know, though.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I suspect success or failure says something about you, as a pilot, land
a real plane, rather than anything about the sim.

Obviously my sentence should read:

"I suspect success or failure says something about HOW you, as a pilot,
land
a real plane, rather than anything about the sim."
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
I suspect success or failure says something about you, as a pilot, land
a real plane, rather than anything about the sim. In other words, if
you land a real plane more by sight-picture and numbers, you'll
probably have no trouble landing the Kiwi -- but if you land a plane
more by "feel", you'll likely not have good luck in the sim.

I honestly don't know, though.
--
Jay Honeck

Only tried a sim a couple times. Did not land well. I guess I land by
feel. Once on short final, I don't look at the guages any more.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
ps.com...
Jay Honeck wrote:
I suspect success or failure says something about you, as a pilot, land
a real plane, rather than anything about the sim. In other words, if
you land a real plane more by sight-picture and numbers, you'll
probably have no trouble landing the Kiwi -- but if you land a plane
more by "feel", you'll likely not have good luck in the sim.

I honestly don't know, though.
--
Jay Honeck

Only tried a sim a couple times. Did not land well. I guess I land by
feel. Once on short final, I don't look at the guages any more.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.


How can you tell? I mean, if you end up on the simulated runway and you
don't get the simulated cracks in the simulated windshield acompanied by the
simulated crashing sound, you know you didn't simulate wrecking a simulated
airplane, but beyond that???

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
Sims do a decent job simulating instrument conditions and maybe some
other things, but they don't simulate landings realistically at all.
Even the most sophisticated sims dont simulate landings well. So it's
really irrelevant. I suspect the pilots who can land your sim well can
do so because they practiced with a sim, not a real airplane.

Just to add to the conversation ---- I wish I'd had access to a MS simulator
when I started on my instrument rating. Whatever else, it would have helped
in instrument scanning and intuitional control reaction. Would have saved me
agonizing cockpit time.

Doug writes:

Sims do a decent job simulating instrument conditions and maybe some
other things, but they don't simulate landings realistically at all.
Even the most sophisticated sims dont simulate landings well.

In what ways are they deficient?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On 23 Nov 2006 09:11:10 -0800, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

Interestingly, even though I personally find the sim experience to be
quite realistic, some of the best sticks I know have great difficulty
landing. One fellow in particular is inexplicably having no luck
landing the sim, despite thousands of hours of flight experience.

He might be more dependent upon peripheral vision when landing, which the sim
won't provide. On many taildraggers, the nose comes up and blots out the view
forward in the flare. I (probably like most pilots) don't like turning my head
during the flare, so I'm left with the "feel" of where I'm at based on my
peripheral vision.

From your description, the Good Stick probably has lots of time in
"barnstormer-like" airplanes where he can't see forward during the last phases
of landing. He might be more used to using peripheral vision.

Strangely enough, though, I can land the MSFS Fly Baby (you DO have it installed
on the Kiwi, right, Jay? :-) without any problems. I might have the "damage
threshold" values set too high. But I did design the panel to arc and provide
just a little view forward on either side during the flare.

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/MSFS/index.html

Ron Wanttaja

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Interestingly, even though I personally find the sim experience to be
quite realistic, some of the best sticks I know have great difficulty
landing. One fellow in particular is inexplicably having no luck
landing the sim, despite thousands of hours of flight experience.

What specifically is he having problems with? Is it difficulty in
controlling speed, approach angle, direction, or what? Are the problems
encountered within ground effect distance or higher? In a real plane, is he
more likely than most to judge altitude and attitude by glancing out the
side windows?

Okay - that's a lot of questions I'm pretty sure you don't have answers to,
but I suspect answering them would help isolate where the simulator is
weakest in replicating reality.