Icing conditions

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in
:

It's not his questions that we have a problem with. It his responses
to the answers he receives.

BINGO!

Allen

In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:

Ron Garret writes:

Except for boots, the safest policy is to just turn it all on if there's
any possibility of ice.

Correction: TKS should also be used sparingly because the amount of
fluid is limited.

And how do I recognize a possibility of ice? Should I assume that any
time I enter a cloud?

Obviously not. It has to be cold too.

Is there a safe external temperature above
which ice is never an issue? Logically I'd assume that ice would form
at zero degrees Celsius, but I don't know what margin above that to
provide.

Yes you do. You stated it yourself when you first asked the question.

Once again I have to ask: you do this a lot (dropping the context of the
conversation). Why? Do you have some mental deficiency that prevents
you from remembering what you have said previously in a conversation?
Or do you do it intentionally? If so, why? I really want to know.

At the same time, I don't want to wear things out (even
though they never wear out in the sim) by running them when there's no
real chance of ice.

These things are ultimately judgement calls, and depend on the risk
profile you wish to adopt. Since you're flying a sim it's a moot point.
Pick a policy; one is as good as another.

If ice starts to collect on places like the wings, what's the first
thing I would notice in the way the aircraft behaves?

In my first icing encounter the first thing I noticed was that less air
was coming through the vent. I didn't realize I had ice for another few
minutes.

I do have a
light that shines on the wing so I can look at it, but I need to know
what the symptoms are of ice build-up as well.

That depends on your sim. I'd consult the manual.

rg

Andrew Sarangan schrieb:

I am not sure why you guys are beating up the guy.

It's called the lemmings syndrome. It feels good to be part of a crowd,
it warms the soul to pat on each other's shoulders and last but not leat
it gives a sweet feeling to beat and kick an outsider, especially as
part of a group. Now if you can get all those positive feelings with a
single short post, then Usenet saves you a lot on psychiatrist fees.

Stefan

"N2310D" wrote

Hi Allen. Well, I sat back in the shadows and ignored Mx's stupidity for a
long time. In this case, I wasn't really replying to his post, only pointing
out to him what a dullard he is.

OK, in my book. Dullard does not even begin, IMHO. g
--
Jim in NC

As reluctant as I am to get involved in a mxmanic thread, the information
you provide is outdated. Goodyear says that it was originally based on the
DC-3, which had large tubes and low air pressure. It is now officially an
Old Wives Tale. The approved procedure today is to turn on the boots at the
first sign of ice.

Bob Gardner

"T o d d P a t t i s t" wrote in message
...
Ron Garret wrote:

I read that turning on icing protection before "sufficient ice has
accumulated" may prevent the protection from working to remove the
ice. Why?

That applies only to boots. If the ice layer is too thin it may remain
adhered to the boot.

To expand upon this (a bit of a play on words here) The
boots work by expanding outward and breaking the ice. If
the thin ice adheres to the boot, it can get pushed outward,
but not cracked and blown off as pieces. The pushed outward
ice can freeze with the boot inflated forming a cavity
between the subsequently deflated boot and the ice. The ice
then builds up on the outside of this ice cavity and the
boot can't break it off because it doesn't push against the
inside of the ice cavity. The boot just inflates and
deflates between the ice and the wing without doing
anything.

--
Rule books are paper - they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and
metal.

- Ernest K. Gann, 'Fate is the Hunter.'

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Andrew Sarangan schrieb:

I am not sure why you guys are beating up the guy.

It's called the lemmings syndrome. It feels good to be part of a crowd, it
warms the soul to pat on each other's shoulders and last but not leat it
gives a sweet feeling to beat and kick an outsider, especially as part of
a group. Now if you can get all those positive feelings with a single
short post, then Usenet saves you a lot on psychiatrist fees.

Stefan

And if you think that any of this is possible in Usenet, you're the one who
needs therapy.

IMO, Usenet is the most egalitarian thing I've ever run accross or
participated in. You earn your stripes here. If you've been there and done
that, walked the walk, insert other hackneyed phrase here, etc, you'll
encounter nothing but respect, help and appreciation.

But, to come to this newsgroup, a newgroup devoted to the piloting of
aircraft and publicly announce that you:
- Have a disdain for flying (Aircraft are unsafe)
- Distrust the pilots (Only the idle rich can afford to fly)
- Consider GA to be comprised of nothing but "Tin Cans" and/or "Bug
Smashers"
- Have never even wanted to fly anything, anwhere at anytime (I can't afford
it...the medical requirements are too stringent...blah, blah, blah...)
- Consider Microsoft Flight Sim to be superior to real flying (Did you know
Baron's have ejection seats?)
- Are superior both in attitude and inteligence without any taste of the
previous 5 points (How can I trust the answers I'm being spoon fed? Or the
books they come from?)

Then guess what, you're going to be handed your hat and shown the door. And
if you happen to catch a great big size eight in the ass as you go..fine by
me.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ USA

This is where training and experience start to play a part in flight
planning...

If the temperature spread between the air temperature and the "dew"
point get close (like only 3 deg difference) the possibility of the
moisture in the air causing ice at or close to freezing temps becomes
a factor. In air pilot reports (PIREPS) are useful as well. This
information is obtained when you look at the weather forcast for your
intended route, and get a weather briefing from the weather people
before flight.

We have had several days of this here, temps +3 on the ground,- 5 at
alt, dew point -1 on the ground.

Last weekend we had this, and a PIREP from a Dash 8 reporting
moderate Rime Ice decending thriugh 6000 2 hrs earlier...

Ugh!

Dave




On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 23:05:23 +0100, Mxsmanic
wrote:

B A R R Y writes:

Ice protection isn't always needed when it's cold, you also need
moisture to create ice.

But without a measurement of humidity on board, how do you know if
there's moisture out there (apart from the obvious case of visible
clouds or fog)?

T o d d P a t t i s t writes:

To expand upon this (a bit of a play on words here) The
boots work by expanding outward and breaking the ice. If
the thin ice adheres to the boot, it can get pushed outward,
but not cracked and blown off as pieces. The pushed outward
ice can freeze with the boot inflated forming a cavity
between the subsequently deflated boot and the ice. The ice
then builds up on the outside of this ice cavity and the
boot can't break it off because it doesn't push against the
inside of the ice cavity. The boot just inflates and
deflates between the ice and the wing without doing
anything.

Interesting! I had never thought of that. I was wondering how using
boots too early would prevent them from removing ice later; now I
know.

I don't think small aircraft like a Baron are usually equipped with
boots, though (?).

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Bob Gardner writes:

As reluctant as I am to get involved in a mxmanic thread, the information
you provide is outdated. Goodyear says that it was originally based on the
DC-3, which had large tubes and low air pressure. It is now officially an
Old Wives Tale. The approved procedure today is to turn on the boots at the
first sign of ice.

Bob Gardner

Are you the same one who wrote the book on ATC communications that
I've been learning from?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Jay Beckman" wrote in
:

Then guess what, you're going to be handed your hat and shown the
door. And if you happen to catch a great big size eight in the ass as
you go..fine by me.

Good to see you in here Jay :-) I was hoping you didn't drop off the radar
due to the mayhem of lete since I haven't seen you post of late.

We need a few size eights to reign in OUR group!

Allen