propane preheater

Dave S wrote:


The trick is knowing wether or not you are having complete combustion.
People have died as a result.

Those cheesy garage heaters generate CO. The instructions even warn
you not to use them in non vented spaces. I couldn't even use mine
in the garage with the door open without getting headaches.

Steve - KDMW wrote:
It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
in my pocket until I get in to go flying.


Do you take your head off and stick it somewhere else while flying?

("Ron Natalie" wrote)
It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
in my pocket until I get in to go flying.

Do you take your head off and stick it somewhere else while flying?


Put it on a swivel.

Am I right? That's the answer you were looking for, wasn't it - Swivel?


Montblack
(WWW) One common usability problem for pilots of highly automated aircraft
is "getting behind the airplane." g

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 22:35:13 -0600, "Stan Prevost"
wrote:

If this is blowing the warm combustion gases into the cabin, plenty of
drawback. The combustion products are primarily carbon dioxide and water
vapor. Lots of water vapor. The moisture can fog all the windows, or
create frost on the inside of the windows if it is below freezing. OK on
the engine, bad in the cabin.


The combustion gasses have more than CO2 and water vapor. They are
highly acetic which is hard on about everything in the plane. If you
have one of those little carbon monoxide detectors (Yellow button)
it'll most likely change color and need to be replaced every time your
preheat. Unless the heater is very good it will also have a lot of
carbon monoxide in the output.

They make good engine heaters in an open space, but I'd not want to
use one in a garage, hangar, or for preheating the cabin.


I used an LP fired salamander in my shop when under construction. It
made my eyes water so bad I had to shut it down and that building
leaked like a sieve before it was closed up.

I changed to a kerosene fired salamander @ 50,000 BTU and checked the
area for CO. It was pretty clean, but I'd want to check any open
flame or catalytic heater for CO before trusting it.

BTW they make a nice small, 1200 watt heater with a fan and thermostat
that also has a tilt switch you can put in the cabin a couple of hours
before take off. Ramp the temp up in steps. (If you have an extension
cord that will reach) Throw some blankets over the cabin if
necessary. It'll be nice and toasty when you get in and drop to
freezing your butt off temps right after engine start, but the
instruments will be nice and warm and you'll at least be comfortable
while getting situated.

As to the propane heater and cabin, I'd outright say don't do it.
The CO will leave quickly but it's hard on every thing else in there.



"dave" wrote in message
...
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I use
in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube type
with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply attach a
flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air into the
cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?

I've seen them blow air into the engine compartment, but never the
cabin.

Thanks
Dave

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On 23 Dec 2006 05:40:32 GMT, Blanche wrote:

I've got a little ($15) ceramic heater that I put on the floor of the
cabin when I arrive at the airport -- and turn it on, of course. By the
time I've finished preflight and such, the cabin is comfy.

I think mine was about $20 but it has a nice thermostat, fan, and tilt
switch to turn it off if it tips over. OTOH they are probably
available cheaper. I set it on the floor in front of the seats and a
bit under the instrument panel. Works great and no smell or after
effects.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Don't be an idiot.


Ron Natalie wrote:
Steve - KDMW wrote:
It's stuck on with Velcro in the cabin. I just take it off and stick it
in my pocket until I get in to go flying.


Do you take your head off and stick it somewhere else while flying?

From someone who has tried...
The problem I had was... they type I have has a combustion area, and the
air actually is just blown over the outside of it. (air blows out only
though the outside area of the internal combustion tube)
The result was, when I added ducting, the increase of back pressure
would cause some air to be blown backwards into the combustion tube and
puts out the flame. Not all are built this way, but many are now.


Mike

dave wrote:
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I
use in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
type with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
attach a flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air
into the cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Dave

I thought I'd follow up with some results. I ended up with a red dragon
propane heater that I bought off ebay for around $250.00 including
shipping. I think the new ones are around $550.00. The nice thing
about buying used off ebay is that if I am unhappy with the item I can
always sell it and not lose too much money. I used the red dragon
twice. Both times outdoor air temperatures were around 20F. I did not
use any blanket over the cowling because I wanted to measure
temperatures while the heater was running. In the future, probably not
until next winter, I'll use an old sleeping bag on top of the cowling to
help retain the heat. The highest surface temperature on top of the
cowling I measured was about 170F. Next winter, I plan to take more
measurements inside the cowling - cylinder heads, oil pan, etc.

The red dragon did a great job. No problems with moisture. I've had
condensation problems using the propane heater in my garage. Tons of
moisture collecting on cold steel hand tools. I suppose the difference
with the airplane is that after a few minutes, there aren't any cold
surfaces under the cowling so the moisture can't condense anywhere. I
let the heater run for about 20 minutes and my IO-470 started right up.
I forgot to check the oil temperature so I don't know what is was
before starting. By the time I looked at it it was already in the green.

I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My first
test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane battery and
see how much battery capacity I lose. I understand that the blower uses
4 amps at 12 volts so running it for twenty minutes should leave enough
capacity for cranking but I'd like to make sure of that on a cold day at
my hanger not at a remote location. No use warming up the engine and
being left with a dead battery. I hand propped a cub a few times. I
don't think I'd want to try that on the bonanza.

On my last airplane, a citabria, I had a pan heater that if left on for
4 hours or so did a great job. On the io-470, if I went the 120 volt
electric heating route, I'd probably go for the full Rieff or Tanis
setup costing around $1500-2000 installed - I think. The two problems
with the 120V arrangement is the need to turn it on several hours before
starting and the possibility of being at a remote strip with no access
to 120V power. All things considered, for my purposes, I prefer the
red dragon. One more pirep, I had a question about the heater so I
called the manufacturer, Flame Engineering. They were a pleasure to
deal with.
Dave
Bonanza M35


dave wrote:
Another thread made me think about using the portable propane heater I
use in my garage to preheat my airplane. It's the standard metal tube
type with the fan from Home Depot or Lowes. I've seen people simply
attach a flex duct to the end of this type heater and blow the hot air
into the cabin - poor man's red dragon. Any drawbacks?
Thanks
Dave

In article ,
dave wrote:

I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My first
test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane battery and
see how much battery capacity I lose.

I use a motorcycle battery to run the blower.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

I ran the 12Volt blower from my car battery not the airplane. My first
test next winter will be to run the blower off the airplane battery and
see how much battery capacity I lose.


I use a motorcycle battery to run the blower.

So do I. It is amazing that you can use a little 9-12AH battery to run
the thing. The MC battery also fits inside the toolbox setup I have. So,
that is one less thing to carry around.

Mike