Sirius and XM merger?

ADS-B is suppose to provide weather radar. I'm not sure if this function is
implimented yet on the ADS-B systems deployed on the east coast. It's
unfortunate that the FAA is taking so long on a nation-wide rollout.

Mike Schumann

"Blueskies" wrote in message
. ..

"Blueskies" wrote in message
et...
: What'll it do to satellite NEXRAD services?

I just wonder why there is not some other source of datalinked information
available. I mean, why does this have to come
in from satellites?








--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Blueskies wrote:
"Peter R." wrote in message ...
: On 2/22/2007 7:35:02 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:
:
: I just wonder why there is not some other source of datalinked information available. I mean, why does this
: have to come
: in from satellites?
:
: This type of signal offers 100% coverage within the satellite's broadcast
: "footprint." What alternative did you have in mind?
:
: --
: Peter

Like the SAS on the TV for instance, but it would be limited to the TV range. Maybe a sideband on the VOR or upload from
the radar...





Cost of 2 sats Cost of hundreds of ground based transmitters

I guess nobody pays any attention to poor old Bendix-King any more...

Prior to the advent of XM, Bendix-King offered their own version of inflight
weather using ground-based stations.

From:
https://www3.bendixking.com/wingman/...a=sso.fis.page

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------
General Aviation's first high-speed broadcast weather network makes flying
safer, easier and more enjoyable.
The nationwide system uses a network of Honeywell ground stations to uplink
a broad range of free and fee-based aeronautical data. As part of an FAA
program called Flight Information Services (FIS), Honeywell has been granted
use of two frequencies to broadcast weather throughout the United States.
Utilizing a newly designed, wholly-owned network of 150-plus ground
stations, pilots are able to receive high-resolution graphical weather
products that are updated automatically with no impact on pilot workload.

Weather is one of the leading factors cited in aviation accidents. National
aviation forums have repeatedly identified improved weather information in
the cockpit, especially in graphical form, as a key strategy for reducing
weather-related accidents.With Honeywell's Data Link Weather, General
Aviation pilots can experience a new level of situational awareness and
flight safety

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------

It has only been in the last year or so that Bendix-King introduced their
KDR 610 XM reveiver....



"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@suddenlinkDOTnet wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:
"Peter R." wrote in message
...
: On 2/22/2007 7:35:02 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:
:
: I just wonder why there is not some other source of datalinked
information available. I mean, why does this
: have to come
: in from satellites?
:
: This type of signal offers 100% coverage within the satellite's
broadcast
: "footprint." What alternative did you have in mind?
:
: --
: Peter

Like the SAS on the TV for instance, but it would be limited to the TV
range. Maybe a sideband on the VOR or upload from
the radar...





Cost of 2 sats Cost of hundreds of ground based transmitters

"Bill Denton" wrote in message . ..
:I guess nobody pays any attention to poor old Bendix-King any more...
:
: Prior to the advent of XM, Bendix-King offered their own version of inflight
: weather using ground-based stations.
:
: From:
: https://www3.bendixking.com/wingman/...a=sso.fis.page
-----------------------------------------------
: General Aviation's first high-speed broadcast weather network makes flying
: safer, easier and more enjoyable.
: The nationwide system uses a network of Honeywell ground stations to uplink
: a broad range of free and fee-based aeronautical data. As part of an FAA
: program called Flight Information Services (FIS), Honeywell has been granted
: use of two frequencies to broadcast weather throughout the United States.
: Utilizing a newly designed, wholly-owned network of 150-plus ground
: stations, pilots are able to receive high-resolution graphical weather
: products that are updated automatically with no impact on pilot workload.
:
: Weather is one of the leading factors cited in aviation accidents. National
: aviation forums have repeatedly identified improved weather information in
: the cockpit, especially in graphical form, as a key strategy for reducing
: weather-related accidents.With Honeywell's Data Link Weather, General
: Aviation pilots can experience a new level of situational awareness and
: flight safety
:
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: It has only been in the last year or so that Bendix-King introduced their
: KDR 610 XM reveiver....
:
:

That is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that is does not get the press that Garmin and XM get...

Blueskies wrote:
"Bill Denton" wrote in message . ..
:I guess nobody pays any attention to poor old Bendix-King any more...
:
: Prior to the advent of XM, Bendix-King offered their own version of inflight
: weather using ground-based stations.
:
: From:
: https://www3.bendixking.com/wingman/...a=sso.fis.page
-----------------------------------------------
: General Aviation's first high-speed broadcast weather network makes flying
: safer, easier and more enjoyable.
: The nationwide system uses a network of Honeywell ground stations to uplink
: a broad range of free and fee-based aeronautical data. As part of an FAA
: program called Flight Information Services (FIS), Honeywell has been granted
: use of two frequencies to broadcast weather throughout the United States.
: Utilizing a newly designed, wholly-owned network of 150-plus ground
: stations, pilots are able to receive high-resolution graphical weather
: products that are updated automatically with no impact on pilot workload.
:
: Weather is one of the leading factors cited in aviation accidents. National
: aviation forums have repeatedly identified improved weather information in
: the cockpit, especially in graphical form, as a key strategy for reducing
: weather-related accidents.With Honeywell's Data Link Weather, General
: Aviation pilots can experience a new level of situational awareness and
: flight safety
:
: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
: It has only been in the last year or so that Bendix-King introduced their
: KDR 610 XM reveiver....
:
:

That is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that is does not get the press that Garmin and XM get...




It's not odd at all. It's not an open service meaning you have to use
their expensive hardware.

"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@suddenlinkDOTnet wrote in message ...
: Blueskies wrote:
:
:
: That is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that is does not get the press that Garmin and XM get...
:
:
:
:
: It's not odd at all. It's not an open service meaning you have to use
: their expensive hardware.

Sirius and XM are both closed systems that require their expensive hardware. I was just reading in Avweek that XM has
over 800 ground stations to supplement their signals, and Sirius, because of their three '24 hour' satellites, only has
a few hundred ground stations. Neither of these systems has ever made any money, and the are making very bad business
decisions ($500 million for Stern?!).

I think it is odd that they get all this press...

I'm afraid I have to take issue with most of your statements here...

First consider XM Radio and Sirius, both of which are audio-only services.

In order to receive the satellite signal, you must have an unobstructed line
of sight between the satellite and the receiving antenna. That's not much of
a problem if you live out in the middle of Kansas or Arizona someplace.

But if you live in someplace like Chicago, when you go downtown in your car
you are almost guaranteed not to have that line of sight, because it's
blocked by all the buildings. There are also numerous places where you might
be stuck under an overpass or in a tunnel for a few minutes. Again, no line
of site.

So, the satellite radio providers install low power repeaters to handle
these dead spots. You're trucking along listening to satellite radio and you
get stuck in a tunnel waiting for the light to change. No more satellite
signal. So your radio just grabs the signal from the repeater which has been
installed to provide coverage in the tunnel. When you come out of the
tunnel, it goes back to satellite reception. NOTE: I know that there is some
buffering and other tricks that are used, but they aren't really germane to
this discussion.

That's why you have the repeaters.

Now for the equipment. I just went to www.bestbuy.com, and they offer both
XM and Sirius receivers for under $60.00. Since I spent nearly $200.00 on my
MP3 player I don't consider $60.00 to be expensive.

While both XM and Sirius offer receivers, you don't have to buy the
equipment from them. If you don't want to buy your receiver from them you
can go to Best Buy or Ace's Radio Ranch or wherever and buy equipment that
will work with their system.

Now let's get back to aviation...

Sirius doesn't offer weather, so we have to look at XM only. They don't sell
any equipment that I can find. On their "equipment" web page all they have
is links to companies such as Garmin and Avidyne and folks like that. Once
again, you can buy your equipment wherever you want to.

For a total store-bought solution you can get XM Weather and XM Radio on the
Garmin GPSMAP 496 for about $2,500.00. And that comes with a free GPS. If
you're willing to roll your own you can get it even cheaper.

I will agree with you that both XM Radio and Sirius are paying way too much
for their "talent"...



"Blueskies" wrote in message
t...

"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@suddenlinkDOTnet wrote in message
...
: Blueskies wrote:
:
:
: That is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that is does not get the press
that Garmin and XM get...
:
:
:
:
: It's not odd at all. It's not an open service meaning you have to use
: their expensive hardware.

Sirius and XM are both closed systems that require their expensive
hardware. I was just reading in Avweek that XM has
over 800 ground stations to supplement their signals, and Sirius, because
of their three '24 hour' satellites, only has
a few hundred ground stations. Neither of these systems has ever made any
money, and the are making very bad business
decisions ($500 million for Stern?!).

I think it is odd that they get all this press...

Both XM and Sirius use their own proprietary methods; that is one of the problems they will have if/when the merge. All
receivers are licensed by them. It is interesting that the US gov't has recently required that they build receivers that
can receive signals from either system.

"The companies, under a mandate from the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC), already are working together on
development of a radio that could receive signals from both satellite constellations. "



"Bill Denton" wrote in message t...
: I'm afraid I have to take issue with most of your statements here...
:
: First consider XM Radio and Sirius, both of which are audio-only services.
:
: In order to receive the satellite signal, you must have an unobstructed line
: of sight between the satellite and the receiving antenna. That's not much of
: a problem if you live out in the middle of Kansas or Arizona someplace.
:
: But if you live in someplace like Chicago, when you go downtown in your car
: you are almost guaranteed not to have that line of sight, because it's
: blocked by all the buildings. There are also numerous places where you might
: be stuck under an overpass or in a tunnel for a few minutes. Again, no line
: of site.
:
: So, the satellite radio providers install low power repeaters to handle
: these dead spots. You're trucking along listening to satellite radio and you
: get stuck in a tunnel waiting for the light to change. No more satellite
: signal. So your radio just grabs the signal from the repeater which has been
: installed to provide coverage in the tunnel. When you come out of the
: tunnel, it goes back to satellite reception. NOTE: I know that there is some
: buffering and other tricks that are used, but they aren't really germane to
: this discussion.
:
: That's why you have the repeaters.
:
: Now for the equipment. I just went to www.bestbuy.com, and they offer both
: XM and Sirius receivers for under $60.00. Since I spent nearly $200.00 on my
: MP3 player I don't consider $60.00 to be expensive.
:
: While both XM and Sirius offer receivers, you don't have to buy the
: equipment from them. If you don't want to buy your receiver from them you
: can go to Best Buy or Ace's Radio Ranch or wherever and buy equipment that
: will work with their system.
:
: Now let's get back to aviation...
:
: Sirius doesn't offer weather, so we have to look at XM only. They don't sell
: any equipment that I can find. On their "equipment" web page all they have
: is links to companies such as Garmin and Avidyne and folks like that. Once
: again, you can buy your equipment wherever you want to.
:
: For a total store-bought solution you can get XM Weather and XM Radio on the
: Garmin GPSMAP 496 for about $2,500.00. And that comes with a free GPS. If
: you're willing to roll your own you can get it even cheaper.
:
: I will agree with you that both XM Radio and Sirius are paying way too much
: for their "talent"...
:
:
:
: "Blueskies" wrote in message
: t...
:
: "601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@suddenlinkDOTnet wrote in message
: ...
: : Blueskies wrote:
: :
: :
: : That is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that is does not get the press
: that Garmin and XM get...
: :
: :
: :
: :
: : It's not odd at all. It's not an open service meaning you have to use
: : their expensive hardware.
:
: Sirius and XM are both closed systems that require their expensive
: hardware. I was just reading in Avweek that XM has
: over 800 ground stations to supplement their signals, and Sirius, because
: of their three '24 hour' satellites, only has
: a few hundred ground stations. Neither of these systems has ever made any
: money, and the are making very bad business
: decisions ($500 million for Stern?!).
:
: I think it is odd that they get all this press...
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Blueskies wrote:
"601XL Builder" wrDOTgiacona@suddenlinkDOTnet wrote in message
...
Blueskies wrote:


That is exactly what I had in mind. Odd that is does not get the
press that Garmin and XM get...




It's not odd at all. It's not an open service meaning you have to use
their expensive hardware.

Sirius and XM are both closed systems that require their expensive
hardware. I was just reading in Avweek that XM has over 800 ground
stations to supplement their signals, and Sirius, because of their
three '24 hour' satellites, only has a few hundred ground stations.
Neither of these systems has ever made any money, and the are making
very bad business decisions ($500 million for Stern?!).

I think it is odd that they get all this press...

I couldn't agree more about Stern or the business decisions but they are
open as compared to the other system we were talking about because there are
several makers of the hardware and that lowers the price of the hardware.

As far as the 800 ground stations are concerned that is more for the radio
end of the business than the weather end. People just insist on driving
there cars on streets that happen to be between tall buildings.

I haven't done any research on Sirius and don't know what you mean by "24
hour" satellites but XM's two birds, "Rock" and "Roll" have given me 1000's
of hours of listening enjoyment and are worth every dime of the subscription
fees I've paid. When my plane is finished it will have my 3rd XM receiver in
it and it will be part of a Garmin 496. I had always planned to install an
XM receiver in the plane for the audio. It was just a nice surprise when
they added the WX service.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message ...
: I couldn't agree more about Stern or the business decisions but they are
: open as compared to the other system we were talking about because there are
: several makers of the hardware and that lowers the price of the hardware.
:
: As far as the 800 ground stations are concerned that is more for the radio
: end of the business than the weather end. People just insist on driving
: there cars on streets that happen to be between tall buildings.
:
: I haven't done any research on Sirius and don't know what you mean by "24
: hour" satellites but XM's two birds, "Rock" and "Roll" have given me 1000's
: of hours of listening enjoyment and are worth every dime of the subscription
: fees I've paid. When my plane is finished it will have my 3rd XM receiver in
: it and it will be part of a Garmin 496. I had always planned to install an
: XM receiver in the plane for the audio. It was just a nice surprise when
: they added the WX service.
:
:

Sirius has three birds circling the globe on 24 hour orbits, two of them 'visible' in the sky over the US at any time.
This gives them a more northern position and therefore better coverage and less repeaters required.

I wonder how many 'repeaters' you would need to cover the whole USA without using any satellites?