A real life pilot's first sim experience

On Mar 2, 6:29 am, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Tony and Danny, you guys got it wrong. Way wrong.

You can't fly a flight sim program with a KEYBOARD. Try to drive your
car by pushing arrows on a keyboard, and let's see how far you get.
You'll be wrapped around a tree in a few blocks.

You can't expect realism from a sim without real flight controls.
With a real yoke/throttle/prop/mixture, and rudder pedals (with
brakes), trust me, you'll find it real enough.

And, as others have pointed out, you also have to set the realism
levels up. Out of the box, MSFS is designed for 12-year-olds who have
no clue what they're doing. Slide the realism controls all the way to
the right, and I guarantee that you will NOT track straight down the
runway on take-off!

See our set-up hehttp://alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm

I'll let you fly it all day. I'll set you up in your Mooney, in any
weather, day or night, at any airport. You'll go away with a
different attitude toward Microsoft Flight Simulator, guaranteed.

Thats the secret Jay.
To have the sim set up by a real pilot who is type rated for the
particular aircraft.
I found MFS (1990) to be nothing like flying a real aircraft..

george writes:

Thats the secret Jay.
To have the sim set up by a real pilot who is type rated for the
particular aircraft.

No, that isn't necessary. Just crank up the realism and get some realistic
controls, a good monitor, and a fast machine.

MSFS was largely written by real pilots. Or do pilots who write software not
count?

I found MFS (1990) to be nothing like flying a real aircraft..

That was two decades ago.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Mar 2, 9:22 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
george writes:
Thats the secret Jay.
To have the sim set up by a real pilot who is type rated for the
particular aircraft.

No, that isn't necessary. Just crank up the realism and get some realistic
controls, a good monitor, and a fast machine.

MSFS was largely written by real pilots. Or do pilots who write software not
count?

I found MFS (1990) to be nothing like flying a real aircraft..

That was two decades ago.

and crap is crap is crap !

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Tony and Danny, you guys got it wrong. Way wrong.

You can't fly a flight sim program with a KEYBOARD. Try to drive your
car by pushing arrows on a keyboard, and let's see how far you get.
You'll be wrapped around a tree in a few blocks.

You can't expect realism from a sim without real flight controls.
With a real yoke/throttle/prop/mixture, and rudder pedals (with
brakes), trust me, you'll find it real enough.

Actually I used a control stick.

I also was an Air Force pilot and NASA astronaut instructor. In both of
these jobs I got lots of time in full blown simulators complete with motion.
I found them to be boring compaired to real flight. I don't think the
Microsoft simulator has a chance of becoming interesting to me.

Danny Deger

I also was an Air Force pilot and NASA astronaut instructor. In both of
these jobs I got lots of time in full blown simulators complete with
motion.
I found them to be boring compaired to real flight. ---snip---

You, sir, are truly a master of understatement!

My RL esperience was in entry level aircraft and I had no experience in PC
based sims, but did happen to get a few minutes in a million dollar plus
true-maotion sim. Even by that comparison, I can only think of sims as
teaching and demonstration tools--for which they are very useful.

Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides
could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching
and demonstration concept.

Peter

Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides
could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching
and demonstration concept.

Incorrect. My suggestion goes straight to the "drink beer and enjoy
yourself" concept...

Yet another beauty of flying the Kiwi...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay, I'm sure you're right when you say with enough additional
components one can get the MSFS to be more realistic. I was interested
in the out of the box experience, I tried the thing again with realism
set high, and yes, it torqued to the side, and was a lot 'touchier'
than the out of the box unit. My limited experience with Mooneys (I
have only logged time in a Ranger simulate that Joe bar landing gear
retraction, boys and girls and an M20J) tells me its soul is a
beautiful, intellegent, and responsive woman. I wouldn't want mine to
know I was messing around with another Mooney. "It's only simulation,
dear, with a younger and faster model" would make my next flight
difficult :-).


I am only a sample of 1, but was led to understand controlling a sim
airplane from a primititive keyboard was difficult. It was not. I
'flew' with not nearly the level of precision that would be acceptable
in RL, but never the less up and down arrowed well enough to not bend
electrons.

I am also more aware that an important part of the flight experience
is wrapping the airplane around me. The seating is low, legs are in
tunnel, view to the side in flight is great, and the control 'feel' is
exquisite . RL flying for me is steak, I was hoping for hamburger, and
got candy cotton.

I don't want to build a pseudo Mooney in my office. I'm sure doing all
of that would get the experience well out of the candy cotton level
and even past hamburger helper, but it's not that important to me.

I appreciate the offer of sim time with your rig, and if I find myself
in your corner of the world (or as a way point) I'll take advantage of
it. My bio technology real life world is not randomly distributed, but
rather is in clusters. So far the upper midwest is one of the leaner
areas (exclusive of the area around Rochester MN). BTW, there are a
couple of good B school theses hidden in that question: how come
Rochester MN, or Cleveland OH?

I'm going off frequency now.


On Mar 1, 12:29 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:
This is what I think of PC simulators also.

Tony and Danny, you guys got it wrong. Way wrong.

You can't fly a flight sim program with a KEYBOARD. Try to drive your
car by pushing arrows on a keyboard, and let's see how far you get.
You'll be wrapped around a tree in a few blocks.

You can't expect realism from a sim without real flight controls.
With a real yoke/throttle/prop/mixture, and rudder pedals (with
brakes), trust me, you'll find it real enough.

And, as others have pointed out, you also have to set the realism
levels up. Out of the box, MSFS is designed for 12-year-olds who have
no clue what they're doing. Slide the realism controls all the way to
the right, and I guarantee that you will NOT track straight down the
runway on take-off!

See our set-up hehttp://alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm

I'll let you fly it all day. I'll set you up in your Mooney, in any
weather, day or night, at any airport. You'll go away with a
different attitude toward Microsoft Flight Simulator, guaranteed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Tony writes:

My limited experience with Mooneys (I
have only logged time in a Ranger simulate that Joe bar landing gear
retraction, boys and girls and an M20J) tells me its soul is a
beautiful, intellegent, and responsive woman. I wouldn't want mine to
know I was messing around with another Mooney. "It's only simulation,
dear, with a younger and faster model" would make my next flight
difficult :-).

Aircraft as woman? That's an attitude I have not encountered up to now.

To me, aircraft are machines.

I am only a sample of 1, but was led to understand controlling a sim
airplane from a primititive keyboard was difficult. It was not.

It's difficult for things like aerobatics. But some types of flying are
doable, albeit not necessarily very realistic from a control standpoint. Some
things work well with the keyboard, such as trim adjustments.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Mar 1, 12:29 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote:

See our set-up hehttp://alexisparkinn.com/flight_simulator.htm

I'll let you fly it all day. I'll set you up in your Mooney, in any
weather, day or night, at any airport. You'll go away with a
different attitude toward Microsoft Flight Simulator, guaranteed.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Mr. Honeck, that's a very impressive set up you have, I hope I get to
your hotel for a test flight someday, looks like great fun. I assume
N56993 is a Cherokee Pathfinder, roughly similar to my Cherokee 180.
I see what appear to be CH rudder pedals in the photos. How do they
compare to your Pathfinder. I've tried the pedals and found them to
be much more sensitive than my Cherokee's pedals. I think it may be
partly due to their very light feedback pressure. Is there some way
to increase the rudder pressure feedback?

I see what appear to be CH rudder pedals in the photos. How do they
compare to your Pathfinder. I've tried the pedals and found them to
be much more sensitive than my Cherokee's pedals. I think it may be
partly due to their very light feedback pressure. Is there some way
to increase the rudder pressure feedback?

Well, we're going WAY off-topic here, but yes, the rudder pedals have
been an "issue" with our Kiwi from the start.

The basic trouble is this: The CH pedals are differential, meaning
that they are linked together, When you push the left one down, the
right one comes back, and vice versa.

Thus, the only way to keep pressure feedback on the pedals is to
"train" yourself to keep pressue on BOTH pedals, so that when you push
one, the pressure of your other foot is keeping you from slamming it
all the way to the floor.

After practice, this works fine -- but newbies invariably oscillate
down the taxiways and runways, pushing the pedals to the stops. Also,
it's then very easy to apply the brakes, so you have to train yourself
to only use your heels on the rudders.

Since this is a prototype for sims we want to install at the Iowa
Children's Museum, we're talking about eliminating the rudders
altogether, and just leaving "auto rudder" on in the program, in order
to keep the kids from running off the runway all the time.

I'm looking for a better solution, because I want absolute realism.
Unfortunately, in the absence of "force-feedback" rudder pedals, I
don't know what else to try.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"