Avgas availability

"MB" == Matt Barrow writes:

MB Got a cite for that?

Usenet ain't a peer reviewed journal, ferchrissake. Requests for
"cites" are almost always a signal the requestor has been effectively
out-argued. If the requestor really wanted a cite they'd google for
it.
--
If I ever went to war, instead of throwing a grenade, I'd throw
one of those small pumpkins. Then maybe my enemy would pick up
the pumpkin and think about the futility of war. And that would
give me the time I need to hit him with a real grenade.
- Jack Handey

"Matt Barrow" wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:
"Matt Barrow" wrote:
Oh, they know where it is (Continental shelf, ANWR, etc.), so exploration
is
rather worthless.

Do you know what the know proven reserves in ANWR are?
ZERO barrels. None, nada, zip.

Got a cite for that?

[Rest of blather snipped]

Blather, eh? Lets see you cite *any* proven reserves in
ANWR.

First, you can start with the USGS "Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge, 1002 Area, Petroleum Assessment, 1998,
Including Economic Analysis" report the Congress,

http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/fs-0028-01.pdf

See Figure 2, for a map that shows the location of the
one and the only exporation well ever drilled in ANWR
(by Chevron on 1985). Chevron was so tight lipped about
that particular hole that they even shipped the waste to
the Lower-48 for disposal at their own facilities rather
than risk any of it getting into the hands of a
competitor to be analyzed if it were sent to the nearby
facilities at Prudhoe Bay.

And do read the rest of the report to find where it
lists proven reserves. You might learn a lot, but it
will not give you any numbers for *proven* reserves,
because there are none.

Ball's in your court... and you might go read the rest
of that "blather" and see if it isn't just as precisely
correct as the comment about zero proven reserves i
ANWR.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On May 16, 8:18 am, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:

The fact is that U.S. refining capacity has been growing at about 1% a year
for the past decade - the equivalent of adding a mid-size refinery every
year. Since 1996, U.S. refiners have expanded capacity by more than 2
million barrels a day This is a remarkable achievement in the face of
environmental mandates setting new ethanol usage and low-sulfur
requirements.

But the last major refinery built in the U.S. was in Garyville, La., in 1976
and the ones we have are getting older, no matter how well they're
maintained.

I dont know about the rest of the country but I do know about
Louisiana. Right now you cannot go to a refinery complex on the
Southern Louisiana area and not see them doing MASSIVE expansion,
doubling sometimes tripling the refinery complex. From Norco/Avondale/
St. Rose near MSY (just south of it) up the river to L38 (Gonzalez)
where Sorento/Giesimer/Fina etc all the way to Baton Rouge (Port
Allen) the bulldozers and welders are working as we speak.

You mention Garyville. That is the Marathon Garyville refinery near
REserve airport. In the last year it has doubled its size and now is
set for at least a doubling of that size. They are 'as we speak"
clearing the old sugar cane fields for new "smokestacks". The
Chocktow is also expanding.

the "we have not built a new refinery since XXXX" sounds good but is
misleading.

Avgas in LA is cracked at the Sorento refinery near L38.

Robert
At St. James tank farm it has tripled since Katrina the number of
storage tanks.

"Luke Skywalker" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 16, 8:18 am, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:

The fact is that U.S. refining capacity has been growing at about 1% a
year
for the past decade - the equivalent of adding a mid-size refinery every
year. Since 1996, U.S. refiners have expanded capacity by more than 2
million barrels a day This is a remarkable achievement in the face of
environmental mandates setting new ethanol usage and low-sulfur
requirements.

But the last major refinery built in the U.S. was in Garyville, La., in
1976
and the ones we have are getting older, no matter how well they're
maintained.

I dont know about the rest of the country but I do know about
Louisiana. Right now you cannot go to a refinery complex on the
Southern Louisiana area and not see them doing MASSIVE expansion,
doubling sometimes tripling the refinery complex. From Norco/Avondale/
St. Rose near MSY (just south of it) up the river to L38 (Gonzalez)
where Sorento/Giesimer/Fina etc all the way to Baton Rouge (Port
Allen) the bulldozers and welders are working as we speak.


Doing what?

You say "expansion", but what are they expanding?

Now, if you'd read back to the original article, you'd find some interesting
data that you happened to snip.


You mention Garyville. That is the Marathon Garyville refinery near
REserve airport. In the last year it has doubled its size and now is
set for at least a doubling of that size. They are 'as we speak"
clearing the old sugar cane fields for new "smokestacks". The
Chocktow is also expanding.

"Expanding" what? Capacity? How much capacity expansion? (Original vs new).

the "we have not built a new refinery since XXXX" sounds good but is
misleading.

Only if we can keep updating 1970's technology.

Avgas in LA is cracked at the Sorento refinery near L38.

----------------
(What follows is not necessarily directed at Luke)

Hey, folks! Keep the old crap. Keep ANWR, the outer shelf and all the rest
nice and pristine.

There's no shortage of capacity (according to our resident "experts"), so
what are we worried about. If the price goes to $4.00 for Mogas and $5.50
for avgas, it's just the oil companies ripping us off.

"Matt Barrow" wrote:
"Luke Skywalker" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 16, 8:18 am, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:

The fact is that U.S. refining capacity has been growing at about 1% a
year
for the past decade - the equivalent of adding a mid-size refinery every
year. Since 1996, U.S. refiners have expanded capacity by more than 2
million barrels a day This is a remarkable achievement in the face of
environmental mandates setting new ethanol usage and low-sulfur
requirements.

But the last major refinery built in the U.S. was in Garyville, La., in
1976
and the ones we have are getting older, no matter how well they're
maintained.

I dont know about the rest of the country but I do know about
Louisiana. Right now you cannot go to a refinery complex on the
Southern Louisiana area and not see them doing MASSIVE expansion,
doubling sometimes tripling the refinery complex. From Norco/Avondale/
St. Rose near MSY (just south of it) up the river to L38 (Gonzalez)
where Sorento/Giesimer/Fina etc all the way to Baton Rouge (Port
Allen) the bulldozers and welders are working as we speak.

Doing what?

You say "expansion", but what are they expanding?

Capacity.

Now, if you'd read back to the original article, you'd find some interesting
data that you happened to snip.

Nothing in the original article was valid. Why bother re-reading it.

You mention Garyville. That is the Marathon Garyville refinery near
REserve airport. In the last year it has doubled its size and now is
set for at least a doubling of that size. They are 'as we speak"
clearing the old sugar cane fields for new "smokestacks". The
Chocktow is also expanding.

"Expanding" what? Capacity? How much capacity expansion? (Original vs new).

Typically when any one refinery has been expanded, they go for enough
added capacity to provide whatever increase is needed plus enough to
shutdown at least one other refinery. That is why for decades now there
have been no "new" refineries built, but there has been a steady increase
in capacity and a dramatic decrease in the number of refineries.

the "we have not built a new refinery since XXXX" sounds good but is
misleading.

Only if we can keep updating 1970's technology.

An absurd statement. Why would anyone want to do that, and since
when is anyone trying to do that. 1970's technology is what they
are eliminating as fast as they can.

There's no shortage of capacity (according to our resident "experts"), so
what are we worried about. If the price goes to $4.00 for Mogas and $5.50
for avgas, it's just the oil companies ripping us off.

Given that they can expand refinery capacity at will, what else would you
want to call it?

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On May 19, 3:22 pm, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:
"Luke Skywalker" wrote in message


I am not a refinery expert nor do I play one on TV...but what I do
know is that they are massivly increasing the acreage of these
facilities and the history is when they do that...the old facilities
keep right on going.

is it 70's technology? I dont know. The Nimitz and the Ronald Reagan
"Look" alot a like but the technology on The Nimitz when she was built
isnt the technology that they put on The Ronald Reagan.

Robert