A380 captain's pay

B A R R Y writes:

Responsibility... Just like a sea captain.

Then why aren't the requirements for sea captains just as stringent, and the
pay the same? The captain of an ocean liner has ten times as many people to
worry about as the captain of an airliner.

And FWIW, one of my best friend's dad is a retired PanAm B747 captain
who has owned light aircraft all his life, and he says "Yes, the 747
is more difficult to fly".

What else would you expect a retired 747 captain to say?

Airliners _were_ difficult to fly, in the days when they had no automation.
But times have changed. And Pan Am went out of business long ago.

--
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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
news
writes:

Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

HP is laying off people everywhere. The decline at HP started when it
become
a publicly-held company with anonymous stockholders. Every company that
changes owners in that way goes down the same path.


I guess that is why Google is doing so poorly :-)

Danny Deger

On May 26, 12:32 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Paul Tomblin writes:
The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

That's not a problem for the employer;


How ould you know you racist fjukkwit?

You don't employ, you don't fly and you don't think.


Bertie

that is presumably the whole idea. If
the employer has experience with workers in these countries, either it has set
up development centers in those countries or it has telecommuting. Either
way, it should be possible to find workers at much less than $75K, at least
for now.

It's all temporary, though. It's possible to temporarily take advantage of
differences in cost of living, but the mere fact of doing so changes those
costs of living and the differences among them, and eventually you are once
again paying the same for workers everywhere. This is already happening in
places like India.

There are other problems with chasing the lowest possible wages; often this is
the one and only advantage to outsourcing abroad, and it turns out to be more
than negated by other disadvantages of this type of hiring. For example, the
turnover of employees is often several hunded percent per year, and it's
impossible to train them because they don't stay long enough to amortize the
training and it's too costly to train replacements every 90 days.

--
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On May 26, 12:38 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
B A R R Y writes:

Responsibility... Just like a sea captain.

Then why aren't the requirements for sea captains just as stringent, and the
pay the same? The captain of an ocean liner has ten times as many people to
worry about as the captain of an airliner.

And FWIW, one of my best friend's dad is a retired PanAm B747 captain
who has owned light aircraft all his life, and he says "Yes, the 747
is more difficult to fly".

What else would you expect a retired 747 captain to say?

Airliners _were_ difficult to fly, in the days when they had no automation.


How would you know?

And , BTW, pilots still fly airliners which are substantially the same
as they were 50 years ago.


IOW you are talking stroight out of your as, as usual. ##



Bertie

But times have changed. And Pan Am went out of business long ago.

--
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On May 25, 9:43 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Gary writes:
The odds of you getting hired by anyone who has seen you post on
usenet are long indeed...

I didn't say anything about me.

Yes, you did, fjukkwit


Bertie

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On May 26, 12:34 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

HP is laying off people everywhere. The decline at HP started when it become
a publicly-held company with anonymous stockholders. Every company that
changes owners in that way goes down the same path.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.




So what,fjukktard?


Bertie

Maybe Bertie..

But, by whatever means, he is correct....

Major prob for companies "outsourcing offshore " at this time...

D

On 25 May 2007 16:56:34 -0700, Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

On May 26, 12:32 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Paul Tomblin writes:
The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

That's not a problem for the employer;


How ould you know you racist fjukkwit?

You don't employ, you don't fly and you don't think.


Bertie

that is presumably the whole idea. If
the employer has experience with workers in these countries, either it has set
up development centers in those countries or it has telecommuting. Either
way, it should be possible to find workers at much less than $75K, at least
for now.

It's all temporary, though. It's possible to temporarily take advantage of
differences in cost of living, but the mere fact of doing so changes those
costs of living and the differences among them, and eventually you are once
again paying the same for workers everywhere. This is already happening in
places like India.

There are other problems with chasing the lowest possible wages; often this is
the one and only advantage to outsourcing abroad, and it turns out to be more
than negated by other disadvantages of this type of hiring. For example, the
turnover of employees is often several hunded percent per year, and it's
impossible to train them because they don't stay long enough to amortize the
training and it's too costly to train replacements every 90 days.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On May 25, 4:27 pm, B A R R Y wrote:
On 25 May 2007 12:36:27 -0700, Gary wrote:



The odds of you getting hired by anyone who has seen you post on
usenet are long indeed...

What if he's applying for "The Argument Room"?

=8^0

No this is a Abuse, Argument is down the hall.

On May 25, 4:08 pm, wrote:
On May 25, 4:34 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:





On May 25, 3:17 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, Mxsmanic said:

Robert M. Gary writes:
Where can I get a software engineer in the US for 75K?? I've been
trying to grow my U.S. team for quiet some time but even six figure
saleries don't generate a lot of response.

Are these telecommuting positions?

The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

The cost is actually a very small factor in overseas hiring in the
software industry. Our two main motivating factors are 1) we want a
large pool to hire from, in the U.S. right now its very much an
employees market, its hard for employeers to find "good" (not the high
school kids that were hired during the internet bubble, real engineers
with real engineering degrees) programmers to pick from and 2) Since a
large amount of sales come from overseas its hard to explain to a
foreign country or company why they should buy your product if you
don't spend any money in their country (i.e. "why should I buy your
product if you won't hire anyone from my country")? Its the same
reason Boeing subs out the 777 all over the world, those country are
customers too.
BTW: The cost savings in India for programmers is all but totally
gone. China will always have a small roll because of the extream
language difference. Eastern Europe is probably going to see a large
increase in technology hiring in the near term.

-Robert, BS Computer Science, MBA, holder of 3 U.S. patents for
software

Robert,

Let me guess... you are in a high-cost large city job market, right?

Probably middle tier. We're near Sacramento.

I am an Electrical Engineer with 20 years of design experience in both
hardware and software, and in Idaho I make $80K a year,

Well, if you account for all the state taxes here (income, high sales,
$5000/yr average home property tax, sales/use tax on airplanes, etc)
you probably are making a California equiv of $100K.

Plus, HP has been
laying off so many people in Boise that there are lots of folks in the
market for an engineering position.

Yea, HP is now where you want to be, especially if you are in a one
employeer town. However, the best money has always been at smaller,
riskier companies. You always take a salery cut to work at a more
"stable" company like IBM, HP, etc.

-robert

On May 25, 4:32 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Paul Tomblin writes:
The problem with "telecommuting positions" is that if they want
telecommuters, they want Indian, Chinese, or Eastern European
telecommuters, or people willing to work for those types of wages.

That's not a problem for the employer; that is presumably the whole idea. If
the employer has experience with workers in these countries, either it has set
up development centers in those countries or it has telecommuting. Either
way, it should be possible to find workers at much less than $75K, at least
for now.

Sadly I do have experience with employees in France. There is no way I
would hire a programmer there. We do hire field guys there when the
need is extream and our UK guys can't hold up the need. The problem is
that if you hire someone in France when sales are going up, you can't
let them go when sales go down. It takes us about 12 months to lay
someone off in France (usually you have to send them away with a
massive pot of cash to agree to leave early). We even had an executive
in France that was right out pocking sales money. We couldn't fire him
for more than 6 months. We actually had to send letters to our
customers and tell them that, although he was still an employee, he
was not authorized to enter any agreements.

-Robert