VFR "picking his way thru" heavy cells with XM Radio weather

On 6/4/2007 1:19:37 PM, Luke Skywalker wrote:

I think that your instincts are pretty good here.

I guess my primary point, which may not have come across in the original
post, is that if ATC has the ability to provide weather avoidance, pilots of
a less-equipped aircraft (including the subject of this thread) should be
very thankful to accept that service rather than go about it on his/her own.

The clip I am putting together will hopefully back up my impression that the
pilot believed his Garmin 396 was a real-time radar with capabilities similar
to the commercial carriers' type. To counter his impression, my experience as
an IFR pilot over the last five years demonstrates that even airline pilots
will take all the ATC weather avoidance assistance provided, despite having
their own real-time radar on board and assuming those vectors don't conflict
with the pilots' weather perspective.

--
Peter

On Jun 4, 1:24 pm, "Peter R." wrote:
To counter his impression, my experience as
an IFR pilot over the last five years demonstrates that even airline pilots
will take all the ATC weather avoidance assistance provided, despite having
their own real-time radar on board and assuming those vectors don't conflict
with the pilots' weather perspective.

--
Peter

Absolutly I am a line check airman and a DE in the B737...

Most pilots do not realize how limited WX Radar is on a light plane.
The antenna size is small compared to wavelength, the power limited,
hence the farther out you "go" the worst the picture gets conforming
to real life.

Airline radars are so much better because of power and antenna size
then General Aviation radars...but even they are no match for the
power and resultion of even ATC radars in terms of WX. ATC radars are
air search not so much WX but with modern technology the WX
information can be "used" before it is stripped off for primary target
display.

With modern digital processing ATC has a pretty good handle on what is
going on "long range" and airline pilots use it whenever the help is
offered.

Robert

In article . com,
Luke Skywalker wrote:

Airline radars are so much better because of power and antenna size
then General Aviation radars...but even they are no match for the
power and resultion of even ATC radars in terms of WX. ATC radars are
air search not so much WX but with modern technology the WX
information can be "used" before it is stripped off for primary target
display.

Robert, I read much of what Dave Gwinn said in his AvWeb podcast in your
post. :-)
Dave also mentions asking the ATC controller to press his "Weather 3"
key and describe the "slashes and H's" along your route.

On Jun 5, 4:31 pm, john smith wrote:


Robert, I read much of what Dave Gwinn said in his AvWeb podcast in your
post. :-)
Dave also mentions asking the ATC controller to press his "Weather 3"
key and describe the "slashes and H's" along your route.

Thank you. I am a pilot by profession and joy but an engineer (and a
military history person) by education....and I am a ham radio
operator...and a RF radar engineer.

"Weather 3" is a good key...the new ASR displays are quite good...and
there is some software coming along which will marry all the Nexrad/
ASR stuff and to do it from a lot of different sites.

I am frequently amazed from a "personal" perspective what happens if
you put a "picture" before someone. It becomes "the almighty truth"
regardless of the limitations of what the picture says. WX
information is just that...

I dont know how many times I have sat with new first officers or
upgrading captains or private pilots in new twins or ones with stuff
like 396's...and they see the picture and have no real idear about
what the limitations are.

I rode shotgun one time with a guy in his new (to him) Cessna 400
series twin and he saw the picture and was buying everything just
right down the line.

All this stuff is good as long as one understands what the "limits"
are...the words of Inspector Calahan seem to hold true..."A man has
got to know his limitations"

Robert

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 12:21:35 -0400, "Peter R."
wrote in :

[Story of cluelessly inept pilot narrowly escaping disaster snipped]

Did you happen to note the aircraft's N number?

Someone should relate this incident to the appropriate FSDO office
before the tapes are wiped, so that the pilot can benefit from some
badly needed remedial WX training before his bumbling casts yet more
negative public opinion on GA, and saddens his friends and family.

On 6/4/2007 1:30:51 PM, Larry Dighera wrote:

Did you happen to note the aircraft's N number?

Someone should relate this incident to the appropriate FSDO office
before the tapes are wiped,

Not only do I have the tail-id but I also have the exact exchange, thanks to
LiveATC.net's 40-day archive. However, Larry, I am not going to be the one to
report anyone, since IMO this is quite a gray area. I personally have a very
different take on reporting pilots to the FAA.

For education purposes, though, I thought it might be beneficial to retrieve
and edit the archive files into a short clip (and also removing the majority
of the tail ID so the resulting clip cannot be used against the pilot) with
the relevant content. When I have the clip, I will post it to a file sharing
site and the link to this thread.

--
Peter

"Peter R." wrote in message
...

However, Larry, I am not going to be the one to
report anyone, since IMO this is quite a gray area. I personally have a
very
different take on reporting pilots to the FAA.

How about filing a NASA form? Isn't that exactly what they were designed
for?

On 6/4/2007 2:06:25 PM, "Steve Foley" wrote:

How about filing a NASA form? Isn't that exactly what they were designed
for?

Having only the audio side and being a third party bystander to this moment,
I am not sure I really have the proper perspective to be able to accurately
do so.

--
Peter

Having only the audio side and being a third party bystander to this moment,
I am not sure I really have the proper perspective to be able to accurately
do so.

I presume that those reading the form will figure out whether it is
worth pursuing. If they pursue it (to gather more information, for
example), they will have a better perspective.

Jose
--
There are two kinds of people in the world. Those that just want to
know what button to push, and those that want to know what happens when
they push the button.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Peter R." wrote

Having only the audio side and being a third party bystander to this
moment,
I am not sure I really have the proper perspective to be able to
accurately
do so.

Right. It sounds like he was using some bad judgment, but there are no
AIM's against that.

Nobody but him knows if he was still in legal VFC. My guess would be that
he was in the clear, looking at the cells out the window, and at the XM to
try and predict where the cells were moving.
--
Jim in NC