Flight Lessons

"Cub Driver" wrote in message
news

As long as you had 2 eyes, all your limbs and didnt have
flat feet you were in the infantry.

Those requirements were later relaxed. When I was drafted, in 1956, I
had thirteen years of schooling but I was flat-footed and essentially
blind in one eye.


The flat footed still might end up in the navy or the air force but
the army didnt want them, eyesight problems were less of an
impediment, especially after war started, there were plenty of soldiers
blind in one eye.

Keith

Subject: Flight Lessons
From: Cub Driver
Date: 8/5/03 2:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Before about 1942, to be accepted for pilot training as a commissioned
officer, you had to have two years of college behind you--this in a
time when the army and navy were drawing from a pool of young man
who'd grown up in the the Great Depression. A bachelor's degree in say
1939 was about as rare as a PhD today. So being selective is nothing
new for the air forces.

This requirement was of course relaxed during the war, and men like
Chuck Yeager (who'd trained under a special program for
sergeant-pilots) managed to become pilots, officers, and gentlemen
without the two years of college. But most of them, if they stayed in
the service postwar, went sent back to college by the Air Force or
managed a degree on their own, through the Univ of Maryland or similar
programs.


all the best -- Dan Ford


There has been number of comments on how much more complicated things are now
as compared to WW II. But I dont k now about that. When I talk to guys at
Nellis about navigation and bombing it all seems electronic and automatic now.
It was far from that back then. You had to understand evrything and work
through problems with laborious pencil and paper procedures and an error could
spell disaster. Seems a lot simpler now than it was back then. Take GPS as one
of many cases in point.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:

[snip]

Thousands of Bombardiers and navigators washed out ...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^

Appreciate the info, but the discussion is about *pilot* training.

-Mike Marron

(ArtKramr) wrote:

There has been number of comments on how much more complicated things are now
as compared to WW II. But I dont k now about that. When I talk to guys at
Nellis about navigation and bombing it all seems electronic and automatic now.
It was far from that back then. You had to understand evrything and work
through problems with laborious pencil and paper procedures and an error could
spell disaster. Seems a lot simpler now than it was back then. Take GPS as one
of many cases in point.

GPS navigation is wonderful, but we are just now beginning to realize
the many downsides of GPS such as tunnel vision, degraded situational
awareness, increased airspace incursions, more heads-down flying,
more buttons and more confusion.

The point is Art, whether you like it or not, things are much MUCH
more complicated now for pilots (in both the civilian and military
arenas) as compared to WW2.

We still require the same keen eyes, quick reactions and good hands,
but we're also tasked with complex tasks (esp. in this post 9/11 era)
that you aren't even aware of.

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with (e.g: navigation and bombing) but pilots have to know a lot more
"stuff" than just how to navigate and drop bombs.

-Mike Marron

Subject: Flight Lessons
From:
Date: 8/5/03 7:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(ArtKramr) wrote:

There has been number of comments on how much more complicated things are
now
as compared to WW II. But I dont k now about that. When I talk to guys at
Nellis about navigation and bombing it all seems electronic and automatic
now.
It was far from that back then. You had to understand evrything and work
through problems with laborious pencil and paper procedures and an error
could
spell disaster. Seems a lot simpler now than it was back then. Take GPS as
one
of many cases in point.

GPS navigation is wonderful, but we are just now beginning to realize
the many downsides of GPS such as tunnel vision, degraded situational
awareness, increased airspace incursions, more heads-down flying,
more buttons and more confusion.

The point is Art, whether you like it or not, things are much MUCH
more complicated now for pilots (in both the civilian and military
arenas) as compared to WW2.

We still require the same keen eyes, quick reactions and good hands,
but we're also tasked with complex tasks (esp. in this post 9/11 era)
that you aren't even aware of.

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with (e.g: navigation and bombing) but pilots have to know a lot more
"stuff" than just how to navigate and drop bombs.

-Mike Marron



There is no "just" to bombing and navigating. But I guess your war was
different from mine.

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with

That is totaly true. But this would be a better NG if everyone else did the
same.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:
wrote:

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with (e.g: navigation and bombing) but pilots have to know a lot more
"stuff" than just how to navigate and drop bombs.

There is no "just" to bombing and navigating.

Right. We all know by now (thanks to you pounding it into our heads
ad nauseum) that it takes a "superman" to bomb and navigate (esp.
in the B-26) but as I said -- this here particular thread pertains to
*pilot* training.

But I guess your war was different from mine.

I have never claimed to be a "warrior" and last time I checked, being
a combat veteran isn't a pre-requisite for posting on RAM.

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with

That is totaly true. But this would be a better NG if everyone else did the
same.

And this would be a better NG if people like you learned how to
properly format their posts and responded to the subject at hand
rather than going off on irrelevant tangents like you, Tarver, et. al.
have done in this and countless other threads.

Let me give you a hint with regards to posting etiquette. Scroll up
and note how you copy and pasted the following sentence and then
responded to this exact same sentence twice:

I said:

"You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with..."

And after you copy and pasted the above sentence and responded to
it not once, but twice, you then conveniently snipped away the point
I made about how things are not as simple due to the advent of GPS as
you claimed they were and chose instead to go off on another one of
your off-topic, tangential tirades about "your" war being different
than "mine." Then you signed off after moaning about the sad state of
affairs on this NG??!??

Here's another hint, Art. Due to your lack of formatting skills,
selective reading (that inevitably leads to more of your of
uncalled-for insults and namecalling), copy & pasting sentences
so as to respond twice to the exact same sentence and just your
overall bad form, YOU are a significant part of the problem, not the
solution, on this NG. In addition to going back to the basics of
Usenet etiquette, as Dudley said, you really do need to start reading
your threads more carefully.

Careful now Art, you're about to spew...

-Mike Marron

wrote:

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with (e.g: navigation and bombing) but pilots have to know a lot more
"stuff" than just how to navigate and drop bombs.

-Mike Marron

No one's an expert at everything yet everyone's an expert at
something.
--

-Gord.

Mike Marron wrote:

Careful now Art, you're about to spew...

Art doesn't have to spew, you are doing a pretty fair job of it.

Rick Clark

Art Kramer wrote:
Mike Marron wrote:

Careful now Art, you're about to spew...

No spewing. :Le's review the bidding.

OK, let's...

You insulted navigitors and bombardiers by reffering to them
as "just" navigators and bombardiers,

Wrongo. Dudley hit the nail squarely on the head when he said you
need to read these threads more carefully before responding. Once
again, here is exactly what I wrote:



************************************************** **********************

You're choosing to focus on aspects that YOU happen to be familiar
with (e.g: navigation and bombing) but pilots have to know a lot more
"stuff" than just how to navigate and drop bombs.

************************************************** **********************


Note that I merely pointed out that pilots have to know more
than "just" how to NAVIGATE and DROP BOMBS. In other words,
the word "just" was being used as an adverb to modify the act
of -navigating- and -bomb dropping- *not* as an adjective
describing "navigators and bombadiers" in a negative manner.

Then you insulted me for only talking about those things in which
I had experience.

Wrong again.

You said:

************************************************** *************************

There has been number of comments on how much more complicated
things are now as compared to WW II. But I dont k now about that.
When I talk to guys at Nellis about navigation and bombing it all
seems electronic and automatic now. It was far from that back then.
You had to understand evrything and work through problems with
laborious pencil and paper procedures and an error could spell
disaster. Seems a lot simpler now than it was back then. Take GPS
as one of many cases in point.

************************************************** **************************


To which I responded:


************************************************** **************************

GPS navigation is wonderful, but we are just now beginning to realize
the many downsides of GPS such as tunnel vision, degraded situational
awareness, increased airspace incursions, more heads-down flying,
more buttons and more confusion.

************************************************** ***************************


Exactly where in the paragraph above did I "insult" you above for only
talking about those things in which you had experience? For such a
rootin' tootin' bombadier, your vines sure do have tender grapes, huh?


When I objected your answer was to attack my formating skills.

Wrong again. I attacked your argument that things nowadays aren't
as complicated as they were back in your day. The attack on your
formatting (not to mention your reading comprehension) skills came
later, and rightly so.

And it isn't my fault that you have no combat experience.

Congratulations. That's the first thing you've said in this entire
thread that isn't wrong.

That is your prooblem not mine.

Er um, like everyone else I have my fair share of problems but I don't
consider having "no combat experience" as one of 'em. Having had
one warrior in the family is more than enough for me, thank you.

Now who is the problem?

You are. But if you learn how to properly snip and format your
responses and read your threads more closely I'm confident that
you can overcome your problems.

Now let's agree to have nothing to do with one another from here on.
OK?

Quite frankly, I couldn't care less whether or not you have nothing to
do with me from here on. However, besides learning how to properly
format your postings and read your threads more carefully, you need
to learn one other thing about Usenet.

Not unlike the nut who stands up on his soapbox with bullhorn in hand
in the middle of the town square espousing his beliefs to one and all,
you are free to do the same here on RAM. However, others are free
to walk up to you and your bullhorn and tell you politely, yet flat
out that you're full of ****.

In other words, normally I ignore you but I reserve the right to
disagree with you at any time when you post something that I am
convinced is wrong. For example, your argument that things nowadays
aren't as complicated as they were back in your day.

-Mike Marron

Take GPS as one
of many cases in point.

I found the E6B circular slide rule "computer" a real bear to
understand and use, plus there was always the problem of where to
store it and how to use it when your left hand is on the stick.

Hitting the On button, then Waypoints, then Go To, is just my speed. I
am grateful that I was born late enough in the history of man to enjoy
the fruits of powered flight, the internet, and GPS navigation.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com