Cockpit digital cameras?

Bruce wrote:
Martin Gregorie wrote:
Bullwinkle wrote:

Anybody have any suggestions for digital cameras to take in the cockpit?

Looking for: Small, so easy storage in the cockpit. Shirt pocket
compatible. I've also
got a Powershot S50, which is too thick for my purposes, although
length and
width is fine
Decent resolution (5 MP or above?)
Large storage card capacity (1 GB?)

Don't need:
Professional quality (this will primarily be for snapshots)
Interchangeable lenses
Bulk

Anybody already been through the process of evaluating and selecting who
would like to share their experiences?

I'm interested in this too, but I'd suggest another couple of things
that would be nice:

- no pop-out lens. A camera without a pop-out lens can be mounted on
the canopy rail close to the canopy without fear of the lens
ramming the perspex and damaging something.

- low power consumption and without an automatic 'off timer' or with
one than can be disabled.

If you don't mind dropping to a mere 3 Mpixels, I notice that Nikon
Coolpix 775s are selling cheaply on eBay. It looks like a suitable
camera for use in a glider, though having handled one, they are almost
too small for easy one-handed operation and they do have a pop-out lens.


If you want a new model that does not have the pop up lens look at the
Olympus Stylus 720 / 770SW

They are resistant to the kind of abuse that will leave many of their
competitors in expensive kit form. Particularly useful is low
temperature capability.

The 770SW even has a manometer function for enriching your EXIF
information with altitude.

Limited optical zoom range because of the internal movement design, but
you can't have everything.

The perfect camera for you - if you can accept the compromises and cost?

Its an interesting beast. I see the zoom range is 38mm - 114mm: 28mm
wide angle would be nice to have for gliding.

Judging by a quick search (and a look at eBay) the 720 was never
released in the UK or was never popular. I didn't find one on offer
though there are plenty of 720SW and 725SW cameras. Is that the case
elsewhere as well?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Michael Ash wrote:

This is definitely the case. Digital zoom is worse than useless. It does
nothing that you can't do on your computer after you get home, but it
throws away the rest of the picture and you can't get it back. If you
anticipate wanting to "digitally zoom", then just take the picture at
maximum optical zoom and then crop/enlarge it on your computer afterwards.

Good advice. Remember to use max resolution on the camera as well.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

I agree with Forest: The Canon A710IS looks quite
interesting for cockpit or any use. I don't have one,
but a coworker just bought one. In America, the price
seems to be around US$250.

Not bad for a camera with:
6x Zoom (35mm - 210mm equivalent) (yea, 28mm would
be nicer to have)
Image Stabilization
7.1 megapixels
Uses only 2 double A size batteries

I have a Canon A75 camera (3 megapixels and 3x zoom,
no image stabilization except for steady hands or tripod,
neither of which I have) that does well as a 'snap-shooter.'
The four batteries make it heavier than the models
using two batteries, but they last a long time. I
use rechargeable batteries and I can get a lot a shots
from them before recharging. If I forget to charge
them, finding double A's at a local store is easy.

Here's one review: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona710is/

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

I'm not photographer or expert but here's my opinion. Like the
original poster, I wanted a camera that easily fit in my pocket. If
sub-compact size is at the top of your list of requirements I wouldn't
worry about choosing a camera that uses 'AA' batteries. The NiMh and
Lithium Ion batteries that many of today's cameras are using provide
plenty of juice for an entire day's usage, and are much smaller in
size. Currently you just can't get a big zoom lens with a sub-compact
camera. This pretty much rules out air-to-air shots with a sub-
compact camera; however, there still some good photos and video to be
had. One exception might be the Canon Powershot G7 with it's 6X
zoom. The G7 is larger than some but it's still small.

I just recently bought a Cannon Powershot SD1000 (mini elfe) and so
far I'm very happy with my choice. The square case is easy to grip.
The new DIGIC III image processor seems to do a great job and the ISO
capabilities of this camera allow it to do well without image
stabilization. This keeps the cost down. Choosing infinity focus is
easy and this camera still retains a view finder. I like that I can
easily fit it through the vent window and take pictures and video from
outside of the glider (I use the wrist strap, of course). It uses
standard SD memory cards which are pretty cheap now.

A good site for reviews is Steve's Digicams.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html

For sub-compact cameras you can buy a micro-mesh sunglasses slip case
from any good sunglasses store that the camera will easily fit into.
This way dirt and other objects in your pocket won't scratch the
screen and case. You can wipe finger prints off of the screen using
the inside of the case and the case is washable.

With 7.2 megapixels, the Sony DSC-P200 is excellent for cockpit
photography. Check out some samples he http://www.fabyan.com/kaegiswil/index.html

Regards,
Roderick
N301N / HB-2372

Anyone tried a Panasonic TZ3 in the cockpit (or out)
Downside is it hasnt got a viewfinder BUT It does have:-

28-280mm lens ie both a wide angle and 10x Zoom or 8x if you count
from 35mm
A 3" LCD screen which can made extra bright
Image stabalisation
uses SD cards (Like my logger and Ipaq)

Downside a
It doesnt have a raw mode
No manual controls but then again who has got time to fly and fiddle
with manual controls it can however be set to take 3 shots each time
with a range of exposures.
Special Battery not AA with lower no of shots than many competitors
(270) and consequential higher cost.

Reveiws all say the same thing great as a point and shoot which is
probably what most pilots want and the extra bright option on the LCD
is supposed to make it usable in bright sunlight.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pa...Z3/page6.shtml
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonictz3/
http://www.photographyblog.com/revie..._dmc_tz3_6.php

would love to hear from someone who has used this in the cockpit
before I splash out..

rgds
Stephen

I've used wide variety of digital cameras including Canon elph series,
as well as digital SLR's including the Nikon D70s, D200, and Canon
digital SLR's. My current favorite camera is the TZ3 from Panasonic.

Things I like about this camera, and the recent Panasonic cameras in
general:
-Very good Leica lens, this one has a 10x OPTICAL zoom, with an
equivalent range of 28-280 mm. I agree with prior comments about
digital zoom... useless. Get a GOOD optical zoom like this one. I
also agree for cockpit and snap shots having a 28 mm equivalent lens
is very desireable. I liked my prior canon Elph cameras, but the
lenses were pretty cheap, and very small. Larger lens opening means
more light gets to the sensor which is good, and they generally have
fewer optical defects especially when zoomed in.
-Leica actually sells a rebranded panasonic lumix camera, exact same
camera, electronics and lens, but you pay an extra $400 for the Leica
name.
-Image stabilization. This is key if you are taking pics from
cockpit, especially if you are trying to zoom in on other objects like
another glider in flight.
-Large display on back of camera that is easy to see.
-7 megapixels is plenty. There really is NO advantage to more than
that unless you are planning to print HUGE enlargements (ie larger
than poster size).
-FAST from shutter press to picture taken. This is the critical
weakness of MOST subcompact cameras. You push the shutter then pause-
pause-pause before the picture is actually snapped. This panasonic
camera has virtually NO lag from shutter push to picture taken in
outdoor lighting conditions.
-Good color reproduction. Every Canon Elph I've owned tends to
oversaturate the reds and oranges. The newer ones may not... but I
really like the colors on the Panasonic.
-Reasonably priced. You can find this camera online for under $300
US.

Things I do NOT like about this camera:
-Uses proprietary batteries, as do almost all subcompact cameras. I
really wish camera makers would adapt standard batteries, similar to
the way memory cards work in every camera. Of course... my digital
SLR's also use proprietary batteries! This means you need a different
battery charger for every camera/device you use... which is a huge
pain when traveling.
-No easy way to attach/use a circular polarizer filter. If I have one
filter that I LOVE it is a polarizer. It is probably the only reason
I hang onto my digital SLR. Circular polarizers dramatically reduce
canopy glare, and they REALLY make the blue sky stand out from the
clouds. I've you've never seen what a polarizer does to improve
outdoor photography, just google "circular polarizer tutorial". As
soon as someone figures out a good system to attach polarizer to a
good quality subcompact I will sell my digital SLR. My SLR is TOO BIG
to take in the glider when flying solo.

Good review of this camera (as well as very good reviews of ALL
digital cameras) online at:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonictz3/

Enjoy!

On Jun 16, 10:55 am, Jim Little wrote:
My current favorite camera is the TZ3 from Panasonic.

I should clarify... I don't actually own a TZ3, but I've used one
several times, as well as extensive use of a TZ1 from Panasonic. The
only reason I haven't bought the TZ3 yet... is I'm waiting for
Panasonic to release the FX100 in July:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0705/07052102panfx100.asp

The DMC-FX100 will be out in July and has pretty much everything the
TZ3 does, but it also shoots high def video! :-)

On 6/16/07 12:45 PM, in article
, "Jim Little"
wrote:

On Jun 16, 10:55 am, Jim Little wrote:
My current favorite camera is the TZ3 from Panasonic.

I should clarify... I don't actually own a TZ3, but I've used one
several times, as well as extensive use of a TZ1 from Panasonic. The
only reason I haven't bought the TZ3 yet... is I'm waiting for
Panasonic to release the FX100 in July:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0705/07052102panfx100.asp

The DMC-FX100 will be out in July and has pretty much everything the
TZ3 does, but it also shoots high def video! :-)



Thanks to all the folks who took time to reply to my initial message. You've
given me a lot to think about, and a lot of internet research to do.

Hopefully, I'll be getting some good cockpit shots soon.

Thanks, again,
Bullwinkle

A bit late to the thread, but I use a Kodak V570 dual lens camera -
see http://www.steves-digicams.com/2006_reviews/v570.html for a
review. The cool part is that the wide angle lens is equivalent to a
23mm lens on a 35mm camera. Almost fisheye, so captures the cockpit
view very nicely. See a few posts to the SSA photo gallery I made
today at http://ssa.org/sport/PhotoGalleryMain.asp

One trick I've recently learned is to set the camera to underexpose
all my shots by a value of 1.0 on the exposure compensation built into
the cameras, then I use ACDSee photo software and with a single click,
bring out the shadows. That is how I get the nice colors without the
normal washout. The auto exposure of this and many other cameras
tends to over expose the image, and once that happens, you can't
darken it to look more natural. But an underexposed image still has
lots of detail hidden in the dark areas, so software can pull it out.

It also takes pretty good videos.

But - I have not had good luck with the telephoto for inflight
pictures. They typically turn out 'dirty' looking with everything a
bit out of focus. On the ground, the zoom takes very nice photos, so
I don't know what the dynamics are, but this camera will not take good
close ups of other aircraft or ground features. But to pass along the
feel of what it's like to be in the cockpit, I think it's great.

-Tom