The Airport Fence

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:54:58 -0400, The Visitor
wrote in
:

Typical price in Canada 1.37 to 1.50 per litre

Have you noticed a decrease in GA activity in Canada?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
GA activity at my airport with over 400 planes is not great. Perhaps
100 plus ops a day where a T&G counts as two ops.

What is the general status of GA activity around the country?

Our airport has been much more active this last month, after a VERY
down period. From January through June, I'll bet flying was down 30%
from the year prior -- but starting right before Oshkosh things really
started to pick up.

I'm hopeful that it will continue, as people come to grips with $4-per-
gallon avgas....

Try $10 per gallon AVGAS - you may say you will quit then but the old bug
wont let go of you. Rational people don't do GA.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Our airport has been much more active this last month, after a VERY
down period. From January through June, I'll bet flying was down 30%
from the year prior -- but starting right before Oshkosh things really
started to pick up.

I'm hopeful that it will continue, as people come to grips with $4-per-
gallon avgas....

Let's see: at $185 or so an hour operating cost at about 15-16gph, another
dollar a gallon is an increase of about 8% in operating costs.

Get a grip! :~)

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

It's almost as satisfying as flying. I can't describe it, but I do
encourge it, if you are able to steal 10 or 15 minutes out of a busy
day. It is well worth it for all concerned.

We need to clone John, and get one of him stationed at every airport
fence in America. Within 15 years, the airports would be booming
again.

Jay Honeck

GA activity at my airport with over 400 planes is not great. Perhaps
100 plus ops a day where a T&G counts as two ops.

What is the general status of GA activity around the country?

Ron Lee


My day job is outside of flying but it is gas powered and does use
discretionary income, in many ways it parallels GA in demographics. Business
for us is kind of flat this year and in my industry it is down on the whole
so I don't think it is just GA. I haven't had much time to fly this year as
well and I have been spending more of my income on other things but man the
bug is biting hard. The local FBO has mainly new G1000 Skyhawks and I think
it is time to get current and rated in one of those!

--------------------------------------------
DW

On Aug 23, 8:55 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:54:58 -0400, The Visitor
wrote in
:

Typical price in Canada 1.37 to 1.50 per litre

Have you noticed a decrease in GA activity in Canada?

Yup. Transport Canada says that in some areas of the country
flight training is down 50%. At the airport where I learned to fly in
the early '70s there used to be three flight schools; two were busy
enough and the third did some float training. The tiedown area was
covered in airplanes. Now there's one flight school with a couple of
Katanas, and both were tied down off in a corner the other day when I
was there. Maybe a quarter of the old number of airplanes tied down
outside, with a few more in hangars. No kids at the fence. And this in
a city that has seen the population double in that time.
There just isn't the interest in it anymore. Too many other
forms of entertainment, both the electronic kind and things like ATVs
and a bunch of other machines we didn't have in the '70s. The dollars
that used to go into flying now go into home theaters, jetskis, quads,
computers and Xboxes. And SUVs. And second and third and fourth
vehicles. Into $50,000 home renovations. Into trips to exotic places.
You can only afford so many things, and when so much is
available, the dollars get spread a lot thinner.

Dan

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:22:13 -0700, wrote
in . com:

On Aug 23, 8:55 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:54:58 -0400, The Visitor
wrote in
:

Typical price in Canada 1.37 to 1.50 per litre

Have you noticed a decrease in GA activity in Canada?

Yup. Transport Canada says that in some areas of the country
flight training is down 50%. At the airport where I learned to fly in
the early '70s there used to be three flight schools; two were busy
enough and the third did some float training. The tiedown area was
covered in airplanes. Now there's one flight school with a couple of
Katanas, and both were tied down off in a corner the other day when I
was there. Maybe a quarter of the old number of airplanes tied down
outside, with a few more in hangars. No kids at the fence. And this in
a city that has seen the population double in that time.
There just isn't the interest in it anymore. Too many other
forms of entertainment, both the electronic kind and things like ATVs
and a bunch of other machines we didn't have in the '70s. The dollars
that used to go into flying now go into home theaters, jetskis, quads,
computers and Xboxes. And SUVs. And second and third and fourth
vehicles. Into $50,000 home renovations. Into trips to exotic places.
You can only afford so many things, and when so much is
available, the dollars get spread a lot thinner.

Dan

Does this mean that NavCanada will be forced to increase its
privatized ATC fees as a result of their operating costs being spread
over a smaller number of users?

Apparently they think there is more, not less, flying occurring, so
given your report, the increase must be a result of airline traffic
not GA:


http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.as...007\nr0731.xml
NAV CANADA reports May and June traffic figure

(Ottawa, July 31, 2007) - NAV CANADA today announced its traffic
figures for May and June 2007, as measured in weighted charging
units for enroute, terminal and oceanic air navigation services,
in comparison to the same months in 2006.

The traffic in May and June increased by an average of 4.5 per
cent and 5.2 per cent, respectively, compared to the same months
in 2006.

Fiscal year-to-date traffic was 4.6 per cent higher than in fiscal
year 2006. NAV CANADA’s fiscal year runs from September 1 to
August 31. ...




http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.as...007\nr0712.xml
NAV CANADA reduces service charges by 4% on August 1

(Ottawa, July, 12, 2007) - NAV CANADA today announced that it
would be proceeding with reductions in its customer service
charges totalling 4 per cent effective August 1, 2007.

This will include a 3 per cent reduction already announced, that
will come into effect August 1, 2007, one month ahead of the
original proposed date of September 1, 2007. In addition, the
Company has decided to add a temporary 1 per cent reduction for
the period August 1, 2007 to August 31, 2008. ...

With the reduction announced today, overall NAV CANADA service
charges will have grown only six per cent since they were fully
implemented in 1999 - an estimated 14 percentage points below the
growth in inflation. ...

Details:

http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefin...0712_12_en.pdf

S Green wrote:

Rational people don't do GA.


Or boating, or classic cars, or art collecting, or horse ownership, or
competitive show dogs, or race cars, or custom motorcycles, or $20,000
custom bicycles...

Chess or dominoes at the local park, whittling, needlepoint, local
hiking, bird watching in the backyard, etc... are much cheaper.

Personal interests are rarely rational.

Can't say I have really. For those that have dropped out, many more have
come in. Lessons are very busy, new hangars selling very well. The
airports that are slow, have always been slow. And perhaps they have
slowed down and I am not there to see it. Southern Ontario seems very busy.


Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:54:58 -0400, The Visitor
wrote in
:


Typical price in Canada 1.37 to 1.50 per litre


Have you noticed a decrease in GA activity in Canada?

Nav Canada will increase thier fees alright. The have a lot of money at
risk in equity backed commercial paper and it isn't looking too good for
them.

Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 20:22:13 -0700, wrote
in . com:


On Aug 23, 8:55 am, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 08:54:58 -0400, The Visitor
wrote in
:


Typical price in Canada 1.37 to 1.50 per litre

Have you noticed a decrease in GA activity in Canada?

Yup. Transport Canada says that in some areas of the country
flight training is down 50%. At the airport where I learned to fly in
the early '70s there used to be three flight schools; two were busy
enough and the third did some float training. The tiedown area was
covered in airplanes. Now there's one flight school with a couple of
Katanas, and both were tied down off in a corner the other day when I
was there. Maybe a quarter of the old number of airplanes tied down
outside, with a few more in hangars. No kids at the fence. And this in
a city that has seen the population double in that time.
There just isn't the interest in it anymore. Too many other
forms of entertainment, both the electronic kind and things like ATVs
and a bunch of other machines we didn't have in the '70s. The dollars
that used to go into flying now go into home theaters, jetskis, quads,
computers and Xboxes. And SUVs. And second and third and fourth
vehicles. Into $50,000 home renovations. Into trips to exotic places.
You can only afford so many things, and when so much is
available, the dollars get spread a lot thinner.

Dan


Does this mean that NavCanada will be forced to increase its
privatized ATC fees as a result of their operating costs being spread
over a smaller number of users?

Apparently they think there is more, not less, flying occurring, so
given your report, the increase must be a result of airline traffic
not GA:


http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.as...007\nr0731.xml
NAV CANADA reports May and June traffic figure

(Ottawa, July 31, 2007) - NAV CANADA today announced its traffic
figures for May and June 2007, as measured in weighted charging
units for enroute, terminal and oceanic air navigation services,
in comparison to the same months in 2006.

The traffic in May and June increased by an average of 4.5 per
cent and 5.2 per cent, respectively, compared to the same months
in 2006.

Fiscal year-to-date traffic was 4.6 per cent higher than in fiscal
year 2006. NAV CANADA’s fiscal year runs from September 1 to
August 31. ...




http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.as...007\nr0712.xml
NAV CANADA reduces service charges by 4% on August 1

(Ottawa, July, 12, 2007) - NAV CANADA today announced that it
would be proceeding with reductions in its customer service
charges totalling 4 per cent effective August 1, 2007.

This will include a 3 per cent reduction already announced, that
will come into effect August 1, 2007, one month ahead of the
original proposed date of September 1, 2007. In addition, the
Company has decided to add a temporary 1 per cent reduction for
the period August 1, 2007 to August 31, 2008. ...

With the reduction announced today, overall NAV CANADA service
charges will have grown only six per cent since they were fully
implemented in 1999 - an estimated 14 percentage points below the
growth in inflation. ...

Details:

http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefin...0712_12_en.pdf

On Aug 24, 4:03 am, Larry Dighera wrote:

Does this mean that NavCanada will be forced to increase its
privatized ATC fees as a result of their operating costs being spread
over a smaller number of users?

Apparently they think there is more, not less, flying occurring, so
given your report, the increase must be a result of airline traffic
not GA:


The middle class, once a vast section of the population, is
shrinking. The airplanes they flew--the older, plain-panel VFR stuff--
doesn't use NavCanada services. No transponder, no IFR flight, not
even many flight plans.
In place of that shrinking middle class we have a growing
wealthy class that flies airplanes that cost as much or more than a
house, and those things use all of NavCanada's services. At the other
end of the scale are most of those that used to be middle class, now
the working poor, who, through various changes in the economy, find
themselves making little more than they did 25 years ago, which is a
lot less when adjusted for inflation. Lots of jobs with no benefits,
jobs that are part-time, non-union, temporary. And wiith little
opportunity for advancement. College or university becomes more and
more important.

Dan