Fatal accident in Scotland

Dan G wrote:

There is no way any launch could be violent enough that you'd
pull the release accidently.

You've obviously never been winch launched in a Junior. Forget to really
(I mean, *really*) thighten the harness, and you will slide back and
barely be able to push the stick forward. Ok, pilot's mistake, but I
would hate to inadvertently push the release at this point, which would
inevitably happen if I had grapped it.

Ian and Vaughn, I fly from a *very* bumpy all-grass airfield. Several
power planes have lost their noseleg there, and someone once broke a
suspension arm on a 4x4 driving across it too fast. It's worth noting
that with a Tost hook you need to pull the release further on the
ground run than in the full climb to release the cable under tension
(and we're talking ~500 daN, not the little tug people give during
release checks). It's just not possible that you could pull the
release by accident.

(There's also been an incident where the pilot pulled the release but
his gloved hand slipped off the ball-shaped handle. You need a grip of
sufficient strength that when you pull the release, it will move. T-
handle releases are far better in this respect.)

Vaughn, I've not flown with a release mounted on the top of the dash,
but I've launched people flying gliders with such a release and they
always have their hand on it.

Vaughn and John, that's why you do pre-flight checks. I know some
people stop bothering once solo as this year I saw a Ka6 lose its
canopy and indeed an Astir launch with airbrakes open. "Airbrakes
symmetrical, closed, and locked."

There was a crash in 2005 where a possible cause was the pilot failing
to tighten his straps and then not being able to reach the stick:

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/cms_resou...0No%20656).pdf


Dan

John Smith wrote:

You've obviously never been winch launched in a Junior.

When I fly a Junior I have my elbow on the canopy rail to support my arm
and my straight fingers resting on top of the release "T" knob. This way
curling my fingers and a slight pull gives an instant release but jolts
(we have a grass field) can't cause an unintended release. For those
unfamiliar with the Junior, the release knob is right at the top of the
panel immediately under the cowl and projects straight back on a stiff
cable that prevents it flopping down.

The same approach works well in my Libelle, but this time my forearm is
on my thigh.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

John Smith wrote:


You've obviously never been winch launched in a Junior. Forget to really
(I mean, *really*) thighten the harness, and you will slide back and
barely be able to push the stick forward.


Does your seat have a back?

We have blocks of wood you can bolt to the rudder pedals, if that will help.


Jack

Ian

Yes, ON the release.
a) the BGA guidance quoted by others.
b) my SLMG has a grey, differently shaped, manual prop
brake lever next to the cable release. The former lever
is not useful during a wing drop.

I do take my hand off the release towards the end of
the ground run.

Please could you expand as to what nasty accident might
result due to me having my hand ON the release at the
beginning of the ground run.

Thanks

Rory

At 19:01 04 September 2007, Ian wrote:
On 4 Sep, 17:31, Rory O'Conor
wrote:
I learnt to glide after the new system was introduced.
I have two hands and at the start of a winch launch
I want one hand on the =
release and the other on the joystick,

'On' the release? Eeek. People have had nasty accidents
that way!

Ian

On 5 Sep, 09:41, Rory O'Conor
wrote:

I do take my hand off the release towards the end of
the ground run.

Why.

Please could you expand as to what nasty accident might
result due to me having my hand ON the release at the
beginning of the ground run.

Glider hits a bump in a field. You pull the release.

Ian

On Sep 5, 2:43 pm, Ian wrote:
On 5 Sep, 09:41, Rory O'Conor

wrote:
I do take my hand off the release towards the end of
the ground run.

Why.

Please could you expand as to what nasty accident might
result due to me having my hand ON the release at the
beginning of the ground run.

Glider hits a bump in a field. You pull the release.

Embarrassing, possibly, but that wouldn't worry me.
I'd appreciate examples of *nasty* consequences.

On Sep 5, 10:05 am, Tom Gardner wrote:
On Sep 5, 2:43 pm, Ian wrote:

On 5 Sep, 09:41, Rory O'Conor

wrote:
I do take my hand off the release towards the end of
the ground run.

Why.

Please could you expand as to what nasty accident might
result due to me having my hand ON the release at the
beginning of the ground run.

Glider hits a bump in a field. You pull the release.

Embarrassing, possibly, but that wouldn't worry me.
I'd appreciate examples of *nasty* consequences.

The only nasty consequences I can think of happen if you pull the
release at 0-300 feet altitude. There is one less Discus (pilot was
OK) in the world because of this just recently. So start the ground
run with the hand on release, but remove it at liftoff.

Todd

On Sep 5, 3:41 pm, toad wrote:
On Sep 5, 10:05 am, Tom Gardner wrote:

On Sep 5, 2:43 pm, Ian wrote:

On 5 Sep, 09:41, Rory O'Conor

wrote:
I do take my hand off the release towards the end of
the ground run.

Why.

Please could you expand as to what nasty accident might
result due to me having my hand ON the release at the
beginning of the ground run.

Glider hits a bump in a field. You pull the release.

Embarrassing, possibly, but that wouldn't worry me.
I'd appreciate examples of *nasty* consequences.

The only nasty consequences I can think of happen if you pull the
release at 0-300 feet altitude.

300'? Bloody big bump

There is one less Discus (pilot was
OK) in the world because of this just recently. So start the ground
run with the hand on release, but remove it at liftoff.

I'm perfectly happy to believe that is correct, but I wonder
whether this is akin to the arguments about why seatbelts
can be dangerous in some circumstances. Balance of
probabilities and all that.

But considering dubious analogies with seatbelts is probably
a mistake!

Someone posted these scanned S&G PDF files to the winchdesign group
today. I'd seen one before and had been looking for one of the
others. They may be posted elsewhere and familiar to some
contributing to this thread. So I've made them more widely available.

As some who had a ground loop many years again on a winch launch
(tall, damp grass 12" and inexperienced wing runner that didn't run,
but dropped the wing on all out), I'm with the hand on release. Wing
down, get off.

http://www.coloradosoaring.org/winch_safety.htm

Frank Whiteley