Going for my Multiengine rating

Flyers,

For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have been taking
Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and Commercial). The flight
school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.

It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one hour
lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile twins
out there?

During pre-flight when I have to check the control surfaces for free
movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted solid and it's like
lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the stabilator. I always
hesitate to declare them "free".

I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine, very fine line between
a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle of this micron sized
line is a good landing flare.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You Want to Fly Twins.
I have it on eBay:

http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y

Kobra
(apologizing for the cross post)

Have fun.
I've found that the group's own Bob Gardner has written one of the best
multi engine text books currently available.

The stabilator may, like our Aztec, be fitted with a bungee spring pulling
the stabilator into a nose down position. Once airborne this improves the
longitudinal stability. I have no idea why the ailerons would be so stiff.

After a solid hour of single engine work sans rudder trim, you'll find
muscles you never knew existed!

Again, have fun!

Jim



"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
Flyers,

For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have been taking
Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and Commercial). The
flight school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.

It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one
hour lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile
twins out there?

During pre-flight when I have to check the control surfaces for free
movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted solid and it's like
lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the stabilator. I always
hesitate to declare them "free".

I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine, very fine line
between a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle of this
micron sized line is a good landing flare.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You Want to Fly
Twins. I have it on eBay:

http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y

Kobra
(apologizing for the cross post)

I fly the Seneca II, any move "up" in size and performance will seem like a
beast until you get used to it. Fly with finesse and trim, guide the
airplane to where you want it to go.

I am surprised that you say the controls seem to drag during preflight. And
yes.. the nose is heavy.. but properly trimmed and on proper speed on final
and it lands easily.

I enjoy flying the Seneca II, I think the twin is very docile.
BT


"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
Flyers,

For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have been taking
Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and Commercial). The
flight school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.

It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one
hour lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile
twins out there?

During pre-flight when I have to check the control surfaces for free
movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted solid and it's like
lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the stabilator. I always
hesitate to declare them "free".

I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine, very fine line
between a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle of this
micron sized line is a good landing flare.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You Want to Fly
Twins. I have it on eBay:

http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y

Kobra
(apologizing for the cross post)

I ownned a Seneca 1 for around 13 yrs (and 1100 hours). The ailerons are
hard to move becasue they're interconnected with the rudder. The stabilator
has a spring mechanism. That's why it is hard to move up.

During the flare, you might want trim "up" SLIGHTLY" ; this will assist with
the flare. (Some people keep a case of oil in the baggage area also) Pull
back SLOWLY, so as not to jerk the nose up. And please do learn to flare. I
had to replace my landing gear trunions around 10 years ago, because they
were the subject of an AD caused by carcks. (IMHO, this was caused by pilots
who never learned how to flare, and "dropped the plane in" all the time)

At least you're flying a 1973 model. So to drain the crossfeed lines during
the preflight, you pulll a knob behind the right seat. On mine, I had to
crawl underneath the wing :-) Good luck.
"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
Flyers,

For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have been taking
Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and Commercial). The
flight
school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.

It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one
hour
lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile twins
out there?

During pre-flight when I have to check the control surfaces for free
movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted solid and it's like
lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the stabilator. I always
hesitate to declare them "free".

I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine, very fine line
between
a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle of this micron
sized
line is a good landing flare.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You Want to Fly
Twins.
I have it on eBay:

http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y

Kobra
(apologizing for the cross post)

"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
Flyers,

For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have been taking
Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and Commercial). The
flight school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.

It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one
hour lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile
twins out there?

During pre-flight when I have to check the control surfaces for free
movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted solid and it's like
lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the stabilator. I always
hesitate to declare them "free".

I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine, very fine line
between a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle of this
micron sized line is a good landing flare.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You Want to Fly
Twins. I have it on eBay:

http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y

Kobra
(apologizing for the cross post)

Make sure the shaft the yoke connects to is clean and lightly lubed (I used
silicone spray). Every Piper I have ever flown had old dried lube on it and
would bind or drag, especially in stabilator travel. Cleaning the shafts
would make a big improvement in my landings. : )

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

"Kobra" wrote in message
. ..
Flyers,
...
It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one
hour lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile
twins out there?
...

I've never flown a Seneca, but all the bulldozers I've driven haven't been
like that at all. They take more finesse than brute force.

:-)

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

My guess [guess] is that the school is skimping on some
detail maintenance known as lubrication. It is often not
done well or even at all.

There can be damaged pulleys too.

The Seneca is not a Beech Baron (very light and easy
controls) or a Duke which has very smooth controls that are
designed to be heavy for a less twitchy ride. The Duchess
is pretty good.

Do a thorough pre-flight and look for signs of corrosion or
other damage.


"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com
wrote in message
...
| "Kobra" wrote in message
| . ..
| Flyers,
| ...
| It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's
a beast...really.
| The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees
ache after a one
| hour lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin?
Are there docile
| twins out there?
| ...
|
| I've never flown a Seneca, but all the bulldozers I've
driven haven't been
| like that at all. They take more finesse than brute force.
|
| :-)
|
| --
| Geoff
| The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
| remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply
by mail
| When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
|
|

Kobra wrote:
Flyers,

For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have been taking
Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and Commercial). The flight
school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.

It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's a beast...really.
The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees ache after a one hour
lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are there docile twins
out there?

During pre-flight when I have to check the control surfaces for free
movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted solid and it's like
lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the stabilator. I always
hesitate to declare them "free".

I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine, very fine line between
a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle of this micron sized
line is a good landing flare.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You Want to Fly Twins.
I have it on eBay:

http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y

Kobra
(apologizing for the cross post)


Congrats. Flaring: if the plane has electric trim use it. I fly a twin
that weights 4800 lbs when I land without the trim I have to use two
hands to flare....

Michelle

Be careful with using the electric trim to flare. Assuming
that the airplane is properly loaded with the CG within the
range, the elevator forces required between an approach
speed of 1.3 Vso and the flare should be slight. Do a W&B
for your landing configuration, be sure to check for an
items stowed in a forward baggage area and for fuel.

The problem that WILL happen is at some point you will gave
to go-around, that means you will need a hand on the power
and you will REALLY need two hands on the elevator because
the electric trim isn't fast enough, you will have a sudden
need to hold the nose down, will loose A/S, perhaps even
stall, then the real bad thing can happen, en engine
failure, Vmc and spin at 100 AGL.

Do some exercise with weights, it is safer.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Michelle P"
wrote in message ...
| Kobra wrote:
| Flyers,
|
| For absolutely no reason, except that I want it, I have
been taking
| Multiengine lessons (including Multi-Instrument and
Commercial). The flight
| school has a Piper Seneca I (PA34-200) circa 1973.
|
| It fly's like a flying Bulldozer on Codeine (sp?). It's
a beast...really.
| The controls are so stiff my left wrist and both knees
ache after a one hour
| lesson. Is this normal for a Seneca or any twin? Are
there docile twins
| out there?
|
| During pre-flight when I have to check the control
surfaces for free
| movement, the ailerons feel like the hinges are rusted
solid and it's like
| lifting a fifty pound weight when try and move the
stabilator. I always
| hesitate to declare them "free".
|
| I have to use two hands to flare and there's a fine,
very fine line between
| a nose landing and a balloon. Some where in the middle
of this micron sized
| line is a good landing flare.
|
| Any thoughts would be appreciated.
|
| BTW if anyone is interested in the Sporty's DVD - So You
Want to Fly Twins.
| I have it on eBay:
|
| http://tinyurl.com/36mp5y
|
| Kobra
| (apologizing for the cross post)
|
|
| Congrats. Flaring: if the plane has electric trim use it.
I fly a twin
| that weights 4800 lbs when I land without the trim I have
to use two
| hands to flare....
|
| Michelle

Jim Macklin wrote:
Be careful with using the electric trim to flare. Assuming
that the airplane is properly loaded with the CG within the
range, the elevator forces required between an approach
speed of 1.3 Vso and the flare should be slight. Do a W&B
for your landing configuration, be sure to check for an
items stowed in a forward baggage area and for fuel.

The problem that WILL happen is at some point you will gave
to go-around, that means you will need a hand on the power
and you will REALLY need two hands on the elevator because
the electric trim isn't fast enough, you will have a sudden
need to hold the nose down, will loose A/S, perhaps even
stall, then the real bad thing can happen, en engine
failure, Vmc and spin at 100 AGL.

Do some exercise with weights, it is safer.

there are some planes that are just nose heavy.