Which post-WW2 combat aircraft have not been used in combat?

"Mike Marron" kirjoitti
om...
(Kirk Stant) wrote:

Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?

And why?

Some ROE:

1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.

2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.

3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!

To start things off, here are my USAF candidates:

B-36 - Held back from Korea for Nuke mission.
B-47 - Too early for Korea, too late for Vietnam (remember, no recce).
F-84F - Too early for Korea (ef considered a separate aircraft from
straight-wing F-84s), too late for Vietnam. Combat use by other
countries?
F-89 - Too late for Korea (?), not needed (no bomber threat).
F-106 - Not needed in Vietnam - F-102s deployed instead.
F-101 (Yeah, I know about the RF-101 in Cuba and Vietnam). Don't know
why F-101Cs weren't used early in Vietnam. Being phased out by then?

Could be wrong, but here goes:

B-36, B-47, F-84F, F-89, F-106, F-101, F-86D, F-94C, Saab Draken, Saab

Republic F-84F France Egypt 1956

29, F-4D Skyray, F7U Cutlass, F9F (swept-wing) Cougar, Gloster
Javelin, Avro Vulcan, Handley Page Victor, Supermarine Scimitar, Fiat
G.91, English Electric Lightning, Dassault Mirage IV, Saab Viggen,

Fiat G.91 Portugal - Angola, Mosambique

Sukhoi Su-15, Shin Meiwa, Alpha Jet, Folland Gnat, BAe Hawk, Fuji
T1F2, Supermarine Swift, Tupolov Tu-22, Tupulov Tu-26, B-58 Hustler,
Tupolov Tu-16, North American B-45, Hawker Firebrand, Tupolov Tu-20,

Tupolev Tu-16 - Iraq ?, Egypt Israel
Tupolev Tu-22 - Iraq ?, Libya Tsad

Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer, Hawker Sea Vixen, deHavilland Venom,
McDonnell F2H-4 Banshee, North American FJ-4B Fury, deHavilland
Vampire, Yakolev Yak-25A, Dassault Ouragen, McDonnell FH-1
Phantom, Hawker Sea Fury, Grumman F7F Tigercat, McDonnell
F3H Demon, Supermarine Attacker...

Grumman F7F Tigercat - Korea


Everything else got lots of chances to do their thing.

At first glance, looks like the US taxpayer is getting a pretty good
deal for his money!

Kirk
(tired of all the non-mil av bull**** on this group)

Same.





H

In article , Mike Marron
writes
(Kirk Stant) wrote:

Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?

And why?

Some ROE:

1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.

2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.

3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!

To start things off, here are my USAF candidates:

B-36 - Held back from Korea for Nuke mission.
B-47 - Too early for Korea, too late for Vietnam (remember, no recce).
F-84F - Too early for Korea (ef considered a separate aircraft from
straight-wing F-84s), too late for Vietnam. Combat use by other
countries?
F-89 - Too late for Korea (?), not needed (no bomber threat).
F-106 - Not needed in Vietnam - F-102s deployed instead.
F-101 (Yeah, I know about the RF-101 in Cuba and Vietnam). Don't know
why F-101Cs weren't used early in Vietnam. Being phased out by then?

Could be wrong, but here goes:

B-36, B-47, F-84F, F-89, F-106, F-101, F-86D, F-94C, Saab Draken, Saab
29, F-4D Skyray, F7U Cutlass, F9F (swept-wing) Cougar, Gloster
Javelin, Avro Vulcan, Handley Page Victor, Supermarine Scimitar, Fiat
G.91, English Electric Lightning, Dassault Mirage IV, Saab Viggen,
Sukhoi Su-15, Shin Meiwa, Alpha Jet, Folland Gnat, BAe Hawk, Fuji
T1F2, Supermarine Swift, Tupolov Tu-22, Tupulov Tu-26, B-58 Hustler,
Tupolov Tu-16, North American B-45, Hawker Firebrand, Tupolov Tu-20,
Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer, Hawker Sea Vixen, deHavilland Venom,
McDonnell F2H-4 Banshee, North American FJ-4B Fury, deHavilland
Vampire, Yakolev Yak-25A, Dassault Ouragen, McDonnell FH-1
Phantom, Hawker Sea Fury, Grumman F7F Tigercat, McDonnell
F3H Demon, Supermarine Attacker...

Everything else got lots of chances to do their thing.

At first glance, looks like the US taxpayer is getting a pretty good
deal for his money!

Kirk
(tired of all the non-mil av bull**** on this group)

Same.



F-84F - Suez 1956
Vulcan - Falklands 1982
Victor - possibly Borneo 1962-66
Lightning - Saudi Arabia - Yemen c1967-70
Gnat - India-Pakistan 1965, 1971
Tu-22 - Chad 1981+
Buccaneer - South Africa 1965-90, Gulf War 1991
F2H - Korea
Venom - Malaya c1956-60, Suez 1956, Aden 1956+
Sea Venom - Aden 196-
Vampire - Malaya 1951-55, Algeria 1954, Aden 1952, Tunisia 1961
Ouragan - Israel 1956, 1965
Sea Fury - Korea 1950-53

Just a few which come to mind, but then my horizons are a bit further
than my own back yard. I don't see what the question has to do with the
US taxpayer.
--
Vic Flintham
Cold war military aviation
http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk

Guy Alcala wrote:

They were still at Ben****ers sitting Victor alert. 27 F-101As and 34
F-101Cs were converted to RF-101G/Hs respectively, beginning sometime in
the 1966-67 timeframe, and were assigned to ANG squadrons.

I'm confused. QRA Zulu is interceptor alert, I thought QRA
Victor was strike alert, but QRA India was the nuke alert ? What were
the F101s loaded with as they sat alert ? i.e. - were the weapons OD
or white ? ;-D




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Mike Marron wrote in message
...
(Kirk Stant) wrote:

Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?

And why?

Fiat G.91 - used by the Potuguese in Angola?

English Electric Lightning - used by the Saudis for counter-insurection?

de Havilland Venom - RAF Malaya and Suez


John



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In article ,
Mike Marron wrote:
(Kirk Stant) wrote:

Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?
B-36, B-47, F-84F, F-89, F-106, F-101, F-86D, F-94C, Saab Draken, Saab
29,

SAAB 29s founght over central Africa (Biafra?) in the 60s.

F-4D Skyray, F7U Cutlass, F9F (swept-wing) Cougar, Gloster
Javelin, Avro Vulcan, Handley Page Victor, Supermarine Scimitar, Fiat

Vulcan flew the Black Buck airfield-denial missions during Corporate,
the longest-range bombing missions to date. IIRC Vulcan always
had a secondary conventional bombing role, so it was working within
its job description. Victors did the tanking for Black Buck, so although
they weren't worrking within their original design role they were
certainly doing a significant job.

Sukhoi Su-15, Shin Meiwa, Alpha Jet, Folland Gnat, BAe Hawk, Fuji

Gnat saw service in the early 70s Indo-Pakistani war, earning the
tag of "MiG-killer" in Pakistani service.
Hawks have seen a maul of action as ground-attack, Zimbabwean examples
over Congo, for example.

T1F2, Supermarine Swift, Tupolov Tu-22, Tupulov Tu-26, B-58 Hustler,
Tupolov Tu-16, North American B-45, Hawker Firebrand, Tupolov Tu-20,

*Blackburn* Firebrand, Mercifully no action. Bugger was dangerous enough
as it was.

Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer, Hawker Sea Vixen, deHavilland Venom,

*Blackburn* Buccaneer saw action in the second Gulf War (1991).
DH Venom saw action in Suez (1957).

McDonnell F2H-4 Banshee, North American FJ-4B Fury, deHavilland
Vampire, Yakolev Yak-25A, Dassault Ouragen, McDonnell FH-1
Phantom, Hawker Sea Fury, Grumman F7F Tigercat, McDonnell
F3H Demon, Supermarine Attacker...

Sea Fury saw action over Korea - including a MiG 15 downed. Attacker
and IIRC Vampire samw action over Suez in '57.

Everything else got lots of chances to do their thing.

At first glance, looks like the US taxpayer is getting a pretty good
deal for his money!

Kirk
(tired of all the non-mil av bull**** on this group)

Same.




--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Who dies with the most toys wins" (Gary Barnes)

"Vic Flintham" wrote in message

In article , Mike Marron
writes

F-84F - Suez 1956
Vulcan - Falklands 1982
Victor - possibly Borneo 1962-66
Lightning - Saudi Arabia - Yemen c1967-70
Gnat - India-Pakistan 1965, 1971
Tu-22 - Chad 1981+

Tu-22s also in Afghanistan and Iran-Iraq War.

A couple mo

Tu-22M (proper name for Tu-26) - Afghanistan (late)
Tu-16 - Afghanistan and possibly Iran-Iraq war.

--�
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)

Mike Marron wrote:


Could be wrong, but here goes:

.....,.. Avro Vulcan

RAF in Falklands

........Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer,

Jaapies in Namibia, and also used in 1st gulf war

........deHavilland Venom,

Kiwis in Malaysia. and RAF?

........deHavilland Vampire

Kiwis in Malaysia. and RAF?

ronh
--
"People do not make decisions on facts, rather,
how they feel about the facts" Robert Consedine

"Kirk Stant" wrote in message
om...
Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?

And why?

Some ROE:

1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.

2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.

3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!

To start things off, here are my USAF candidates:

B-36 - Held back from Korea for Nuke mission.
B-47 - Too early for Korea, too late for Vietnam (remember, no recce).
F-84F - Too early for Korea (ef considered a separate aircraft from
straight-wing F-84s), too late for Vietnam. Combat use by other
countries?
F-89 - Too late for Korea (?), not needed (no bomber threat).
F-106 - Not needed in Vietnam - F-102s deployed instead.
F-101 (Yeah, I know about the RF-101 in Cuba and Vietnam). Don't know
why F-101Cs weren't used early in Vietnam. Being phased out by then?

Everything else got lots of chances to do their thing.

At first glance, looks like the US taxpayer is getting a pretty good
deal for his money!

Kirk
(tired of all the non-mil av bull**** on this group)

I don't believe the AV-8A Harrier ever saw combat with the Marines. I don't
believe they were at Grenada or Lebanon). Of course the British versions did
as did the AV-8B's. The difference between the AV-8A and the B are so great
that the B has to be considered a new aircraft. Kinda like the old and new
F/A-18's.

But it seems that every body is nit-picking between models so there are
quite a few that didn't make combat according to those criteria. Quite a few
early models of the B-52 for example,
Then add the A-5A /A-5B, the original F8U(F-8A), the F-8E(FN), F-105B, some
of the early models of the A-4, etc. As you can see it can get rediculas in
a hurry


Someone else said the B-45/RB-45. But the B-45 saw action in Vietnam
dropping bombs.

Red Rider

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
(Kirk Stant) wrote:

Just for fun, off the top of your heads, which post-WW2 combat
aircraft (any country) have NOT been used in their intended roles in
an actual shooting war (or police action, or soccer riot, or whatever
it's called these days)?

And why?

Some ROE:

1. Combat aircraft means it was designed or modified to employ
air-to-air or air-to-ground/ship/boat weapons.

2. Combat means someone was activily shooting back (or really wanted
to) while the aircraft was performing it's mission.

3. Let's leave out recce, that just gets too complicated!

To start things off, here are my USAF candidates:

B-36 - Held back from Korea for Nuke mission.
B-47 - Too early for Korea, too late for Vietnam (remember, no recce).
F-84F - Too early for Korea (ef considered a separate aircraft from
straight-wing F-84s), too late for Vietnam. Combat use by other
countries?
F-89 - Too late for Korea (?), not needed (no bomber threat).
F-106 - Not needed in Vietnam - F-102s deployed instead.
F-101 (Yeah, I know about the RF-101 in Cuba and Vietnam). Don't know
why F-101Cs weren't used early in Vietnam. Being phased out by then?

Could be wrong, but here goes:

B-36, B-47, F-84F, F-89, F-106, F-101, F-86D, F-94C, Saab Draken, Saab
29, F-4D Skyray, F7U Cutlass, F9F (swept-wing) Cougar, Gloster
Javelin, Avro Vulcan, Handley Page Victor, Supermarine Scimitar, Fiat
G.91, English Electric Lightning, Dassault Mirage IV, Saab Viggen,
Sukhoi Su-15, Shin Meiwa, Alpha Jet, Folland Gnat, BAe Hawk, Fuji
T1F2, Supermarine Swift, Tupolov Tu-22, Tupulov Tu-26, B-58 Hustler,
Tupolov Tu-16, North American B-45, Hawker Firebrand, Tupolov Tu-20,
Hawker Siddeley Buccaneer, Hawker Sea Vixen, deHavilland Venom,
McDonnell F2H-4 Banshee, North American FJ-4B Fury, deHavilland
Vampire, Yakolev Yak-25A, Dassault Ouragen, McDonnell FH-1
Phantom, Hawker Sea Fury, Grumman F7F Tigercat, McDonnell
F3H Demon, Supermarine Attacker...



F9F Cougar - used (briefly) for FAC ops in Vietnam
Avro Vulcan - Falklands War
Gnat - India vs Pakistan
Hawk - Kuwait (Gulf War - Iraq invasion), Possibly Indonesia Coin ops in
East Timor)
Tu 22 - Libya - bombing raids on Chad
Tu 16 - Egypt vs Israel
Buccaneer - Gulf War
Venom - Suez (at least Sea Vixen) - also COIN in Aden
FJ-4B Fury - (Briefly) Vietnam
Ouragan, Israel vs Egypt, India vs Pakistan
Sea Fury - Korea
F7F Tigercat - Korea, WW2

I had forgotten the B-58 - Duh!
And I guess the FB-111 should be included.
B-45 was used in Korea, but for recce only?
F-94 was used in Korea (supposedly not as successfully as the F4U-5N,
especially against Bedcheck Charlie). Not sure what model.
French used Vampires and maybe Venoms in Algeria and Suez?
Lots of early French and Brit types used in Suez (my favorite -
Westland Wyvern - that must have been a bitchin' prop job to push
around!)
Some Alpha Jets were sold to African countries, and may have been used
there.

My guess is that the only British type to see no combat is the
Lightning - if only because it was not really optimized for airbase
defense and couldn't get anywhere else to fight! Just joking, but
only the Saudi's could have used it, using what, those goofy over the
wing bomb ejector racks? - I would have loved to have seen that. The
pilot would be safe from and optically guided AAA, however - the gun
crew would be laughing so hard it would be hard to aim their piece!

Looks like all the French hardware, except for the Mirage IV (in the
bomber role), got used (and still gets used). FAF Mirage IVPs did a
lot of good recce work for us lately, I believe. Even Rafales (off
the CV Charles DeGaulle) were deployed over Afghanistan in Air Defense
roles, while 2000's were dropping LGBs. Where were the Typhoons?

A similar picture for US and Soviet designs: Specialized Air Defense
fighters have less likelyhood of actual use (which is logical).
Bombers and "Frontal
Aviation" types - to use the soviet term - are much more likely to be
used.

All this isn't meant to prove anything, other than there sure are a
lot of people out there that apparently need bombs dropped on them or
missiles shot at them. Don't sell that stock in the Military
Industrial Complex yet! And lets start cranking out those F-35s.

Kirk