How do you plan the descent in emergency landing practice?

"Shirl" wrote in message
...
"Al G" wrote:
Al G, 7 engine failures on 6 aircraft, no off field
(unscheduled) landings.

7 engine failures on 6 aircraft ... in how many years? how many hours?
Just wondering because the off-the-cuff attitude expressed here (which,
having had one, I disagree with) is that "the odds are very small" of
having an actual engine failure. Hardly seems that's been the case with
you!

Bottom line is that whether it's none, one or six, small odds don't mean
that it doesn't happen or that you don't have to concern yourself with
being prepared. Even though Kirk says his recent practices have been hit
and miss, he would, by virtue of the fact that he's been *doing them*
and thinking about that process, at least have the drill and how the
airplane reacts to various things fresh in his mind -- in terms of
having some degree of preparedness, isn't that a better place to be in
the event of an actual failure than if you hadn't practiced the drill
since your last BFR (which could be as long as two years ago)?

35 Years, 7000 civilian hrs. Largely CFI & 135.

Mooney 201, induction icing, at night, 30 North of Medford, shot the
ILS.
Aeronca Champ, carburetor icing, left downwind, 2nd in a flight of
two.
C-340, both engines, fuel icing, 100 nm North of Reno, got 1 lit
lower.
C-210, Mechanic induced induction failure, 250' on departure, landed
straight ahead.
Piper Aztec, Mechanic induced engine fire, same mechanic as 210, 50
South of Medford.
C337, Pressurized, Cylinder head blew off the rear engine, on
rotation at Boeing.

6 paved runways, 5 of them had a bar, (extra points).

Obviously Ice has played a major role. To this day I drink beer,
which is served without ice.

Al G CFIAMI 2069297

Did you shoot the mechanic after the second forced landing he caused?
(just being facetious, but I'll bet you and he parted ways after that)

Had a friend who "almost" had a cylinder blow apart on a Skymaster. It
was cracked about 3/4 the way around. Happened on a flight of young
eagles.
It was also the rear engine. He detected a bit of vibration and
returned to the airport.

David Johnson

"Dave" wrote in message
...
Did you shoot the mechanic after the second forced landing he caused?
(just being facetious, but I'll bet you and he parted ways after that)

Had a friend who "almost" had a cylinder blow apart on a Skymaster. It
was cracked about 3/4 the way around. Happened on a flight of young
eagles.
It was also the rear engine. He detected a bit of vibration and
returned to the airport.

David Johnson


As a matter of fact, two years after the second mechanic related
failure, I was flying a 414 for a Fruit Company when they hired a new
mechanic. You guessed it. I quit. Two times was enough.

Al G

"Shirl" wrote in message
...
"Al G" wrote:
Al G, 7 engine failures on 6 aircraft, no off field
(unscheduled) landings.

7 engine failures on 6 aircraft ... in how many years? how many hours?
Just wondering because the off-the-cuff attitude expressed here (which,
having had one, I disagree with) is that "the odds are very small" of
having an actual engine failure. Hardly seems that's been the case with
you!

Bottom line is that whether it's none, one or six, small odds don't mean
that it doesn't happen or that you don't have to concern yourself with
being prepared. Even though Kirk says his recent practices have been hit
and miss, he would, by virtue of the fact that he's been *doing them*
and thinking about that process, at least have the drill and how the
airplane reacts to various things fresh in his mind -- in terms of
having some degree of preparedness, isn't that a better place to be in
the event of an actual failure than if you hadn't practiced the drill
since your last BFR (which could be as long as two years ago)?

It occurs to me after reading my post, that I missed mentioning one of
the more important points.

In an emergency, you will act just like you trained. The things you
practice, you will do automatically when faced with surprise and threat.
Practice closing the throttle a little earlier, a little further out, each
landing. You pick up a terrific feel for the attitude of a good glide. One
of my engine outs was an induction system failure at 250' on departure. The
T210 was climbing smartly with gear in transit about halfway down the
runway(4000'), when the thing just quit like you pulled the throttle to
idle. While I was looking dumbfounded at the MP and RPM, my left hand was
gently pushing over to just the right attitude for the upcoming glide. I
think for a second there I was almost in shock. Nevertheless, I did just
right. You would be amazed at what your brain can do when you've taught it
correctly. One of my students once said, "Luck is where opportunity meets
preparation".

Al G

"Al G" wrote:
It occurs to me after reading my post, that I missed mentioning one of
the more important points.

In an emergency, you will act just like you trained. The things you
practice, you will do automatically when faced with surprise and threat.
Practice closing the throttle a little earlier, a little further out, each
landing. You pick up a terrific feel for the attitude of a good glide. One
of my engine outs was an induction system failure at 250' on departure. The
T210 was climbing smartly with gear in transit about halfway down the
runway(4000'), when the thing just quit like you pulled the throttle to
idle. While I was looking dumbfounded at the MP and RPM, my left hand was
gently pushing over to just the right attitude for the upcoming glide. I
think for a second there I was almost in shock. Nevertheless, I did just
right. You would be amazed at what your brain can do when you've taught it
correctly. One of my students once said, "Luck is where opportunity meets
preparation".

I agree about what your brain can do when you've taught/programmed it
correctly. But the more time that elapses from whence you last did that
training/programming, the less automatic it becomes. You may still
remember all the items in the drill, but it may take a few extra seconds
to remember them -- in the type of emergencies we're talking about, few
extra seconds may make a huge difference in the outcome. So I think the
key phrase in what you said above is that "the things you *practice*"
will be done automatically. In order to maintain that necessary level of
automatic reaction, it has to be practiced/re-programmed with some
regularity (more often than once every other year).

"Shirl" wrote in message
...
"Al G" wrote:
It occurs to me after reading my post, that I missed mentioning one of
the more important points.

In an emergency, you will act just like you trained. The things you
practice, you will do automatically when faced with surprise and threat.
Practice closing the throttle a little earlier, a little further out,
each
landing. You pick up a terrific feel for the attitude of a good glide.
One
of my engine outs was an induction system failure at 250' on departure.
The
T210 was climbing smartly with gear in transit about halfway down the
runway(4000'), when the thing just quit like you pulled the throttle to
idle. While I was looking dumbfounded at the MP and RPM, my left hand was
gently pushing over to just the right attitude for the upcoming glide. I
think for a second there I was almost in shock. Nevertheless, I did just
right. You would be amazed at what your brain can do when you've taught
it
correctly. One of my students once said, "Luck is where opportunity meets
preparation".

I agree about what your brain can do when you've taught/programmed it
correctly. But the more time that elapses from whence you last did that
training/programming, the less automatic it becomes. You may still
remember all the items in the drill, but it may take a few extra seconds
to remember them -- in the type of emergencies we're talking about, few
extra seconds may make a huge difference in the outcome. So I think the
key phrase in what you said above is that "the things you *practice*"
will be done automatically. In order to maintain that necessary level of
automatic reaction, it has to be practiced/re-programmed with some
regularity (more often than once every other year).

Absolutely.

Al G

Do you experienced pilots just have a sixth sense about how to get the
aircraft exactly where it needs to be? Is it something you consciously
analyze throughout the descent or just instinctlvely do?

It helps to know the typical field size in your area. Then you could
think "this is my intended touchdown point, I want to be two fields to
a side and three fields behind it, and see it at an angle of, say, 40
degrees".

Mind you, I have never flown power, and I am not exactly experienced
either :-)

Bartek

Knowing your power-off descent rate will help. In my plane, I know that
my power off descent rate at best glide speed is about 50% higher than the
500 ft./min rate that I generally use in a normal pattern. If I arrive at 1,
000 ft. AGL abeam of my landing spot. I know that I'll have to make an
abbreviated pattern to make the runway. I also aim for a spot a several
hundred feet down the landing area to prevent landing short. The sight
picture through the windshield on final will tell you where you're going to
go. If you're overshooting, your landing spot will move down. If you're
coming up short, the landing spot will move up in the windshield. I try to
overshoot slightly as I turn final, then adjust the descent rate with a hard
slip to put it down at the near edge of the landing area.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums...ation/200710/1

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 19:31:04 GMT, "JGalban via AviationKB.com"
u32749@uwe wrote:

Knowing your power-off descent rate will help.

This whole discussion sounds like an argument against power-on
approaches.

I was taught power-on by a former military pilot. Then he went off to
the airlines and my new, older, civilian-trained pilot instructed me
to go throttle all the way back at the numbers, then fly the rest of
the pattern without any more power than it took to "clear" the engine
from time to time.


Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
new from HarperCollins www.FlyingTigersBook.com