40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.

Bob McKellar wrote:

[blah blah]

And now, of necessity, I must address the issue of Mr. Marron.

C'mon Bob, it's no secret that you and "Autocollimator" (e.g: Kramer)
have been in kahootz with each other from the get go.

And there's no Mr. Marron "issue" here as far as I'm concerned. Get a
life -- I'm just funnin' with y'all.

Geez. Where in the world is ol' "Autocollimator" anyway? Art???

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...
Since my name was dropped in Art's first post in this thread, I feel
entitled to
chime in. I have waited a while to do so, reading the other posts with
great
interest.

A lot of what I was going to say has already been expressed quite well by
others.
Vlado and Dudley chimed in with the rest of the hand grenade squad ( very
entertaining! ) and others such as Gordon, Peter and the Lizard
contributed in less
incendiary ways, with at least some attempt at an evenhanded appraisal.

Those familiar with my posting history these many years know that
sometimes I stray
just a bit from a flat recitation of facts. For the purposes of this
post,
however, I am restricting myself to a very low bull**** factor. ( Very
difficult
for me!)

First, I want to state a few things in reference to a variety of things
which have
come up.

I host and code Art's web site, but ALL the content is his. I correct
typos from
the emails he sends me, but that's it. There is no money involved in any
of this
for either of us. Also, Art is not really a particularly tech savvy guy.

All my contact with Art has been email, no phone calls, no face time, no
faxes, and
just one snail mailed clipping. However, over several years, I have
encountered
absolutely NO indication that he is not who he says he is. In addition to
the
evidence available on the web site, I have encountered numerous other
pieces of
evidence verifying his identity.

----------

The "Autocollimator" story:

I spent about half an hour this afternoon on Google, and emailed another
"RAM
regular" to discuss the issue. I did NOT email Art himself.
Autocollimator is a
real word, BTW.

In my opinion, there is a very good chance that Art either IS
"Autocollimator" or
had a very direct influence in those posts. I will not detail my
reasoning here,
but it involves NO "inside" information.

I really don't think it would be such a big deal if Art wanted to have a
little
extra fun on the group, and created another persona to express some
different
views. Let's face it, "Autocollimator" is hardly the worst offender
we've seen
lately. I don't plan to spend any time worrying about it.


-------------

I don't really have anything to add to the "Good Art/Bad Art" controversy,
others
have covered it quite well. Except for this post, I don't think I have
ever
commented publicly on it, and I don't think I have any great insights.
The
tradeoffs are obvious to any reasonable long term reader of RAM.

-------------

And now, of necessity, I must address the issue of Mr. Marron. Over the
years, I
have watched many new posters earn universal derision and enmity on the
group.
However, I can't recall anybody else who reached his current depths of
disapproval
without benefit of outlandishly nonfactual statements. Mr. Marron is now
in the
losers' league of Tarver, Mladen,.and the XXX999 kooks, sinking below the
Arndt
level, without ever making a really silly claim ( by the loose standards
of RAM ).

Mr. Marron has even posted valuable material at times. However, by the
sheer force
of obnoxious personality, he has managed to irritate people even while
making what
should have been a legitimate contribution. This happens to posters all
the time,
of course ( including Art ). But Mr. Marron has raised this from an
occasional
communication problem to a consistent barrage of offensive invective,
untempered by
any real original contributions ( unless you want to count lyrical praise
of his
"almost an airplane").

I suppose I am a bit naive, a bit of a romantic with regard to communities
like
RAM. I have always felt that the raging battles we see would never happen
if we
were sitting around a table with the benefit of tone of voice and facial
expressions to leaven the harsh typing of a newsgroup post. I certainly
don't
think all opinions would coincide in such a venue. ( What would be the
fun in
that? ) But all in all, I used to say I'd be glad to have a beer with any
of the
non loon RAM regulars, regardless of how much I may disagree with them on
issues.

Now, however, I have found an exception to that rule.


Bob McKellar

This is an excellent post Bob, and some astute observation as well. I think
you have summed up basically what many of us are feeling and just didn't
have the time or the inclination to post ourselves.
For myself personally, you will notice that I didn't actually address the
issue of "Autocollimator" at all in my responses. There is a reason for
this. Like you, I see this as a non issue, and if Art has chosen a pseudonym
persona to hawk his wares; that's his business. It's the completely
unnecessary vitriolic attacks by Mr. Marron I find objectionable, and my
posting to this thread verifies that in some detail I believe. I believe
Marron's problems go much deeper than Art. That however is not my concern. I
do get concerned however when people like Vlado Lenoch are attacked in the
posting manner of Mr. Marron. Now Vlado can speak for himself I'm sure, but
I personally found Marron's remarks to Vlado so repugnant that I inserted a
reply at that point.
People like Marron will come and go on a newsgroup like this one. It's the
natural way of things on Usenet. It's an unfortunate fact that some people
either enjoy the unpleasant responses they generate on Usenet...like Tarver,
or simply bring their inner hostilities to the group. I believe this is the
case with Marron. It seems that the more actual experience his adversary
has, the more he attacks that adversary. It's like he has to constantly
prove himself to himself. God knows, I'm not a psychologist. It's not my
field of expertise. I've tried everything I can think of to bring Marron
around and change his attitude. I thought he might have something useful to
add to the group. Not many of us have much experience with ultralights.
They're the future for General Aviation at least.......but it's useless. The
more he posts, the more I'm convinced he's a genuine case of hostility and
arrested development........challenging me to an aerial dual is just one
example of this immaturity. I personally wouldn't go near an airplane with
someone like Marron.
It's a shame really. As I said, people come and they go on Usenet. You get
some bad and you get some good. That's the natural way of things on Usenet.
Hell, I've been posting here for over five years almost daily. If I dropped
dead tonight, my Usenet legacy would most likely take one of two forms.
First, and most probable of the two possible scenarios; I'd pass completely
unnoticed into Usenet oblivion, people filling in where I used to be without
a thought about what happened to me. On the other hand, perhaps somewhere
down the line, someone would innocently ask, "Where's Dudley gone?" The
thread generated (if any at all)would be a rather short mixture of those who
liked me and those who didn't, each adding their own little "tidbit" to mark
my absence; none actually knowing I was dead. Then, just like the water in a
pond rushing back in to fill the hole where the rock was thrown in, the
thread would disappear, and I'd never be mentioned again. Life goes on with
Usenet. :-)
Strange isn't it though....how many of us can get to know each other so well
over years of "talking" to each other...then just pass on quietly one day
without a trace. Usenet is kind of sad that way.
Oh well, as I said, life goes on!! :-)))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Bob McKellar wrote:

Now, however, I have found an exception to that rule.


Bob McKellar

.


Well done Bob...a keeper.
--

-Gord.

To Art:

Congratulations on a very successful site that has given a lot of
folks a lot of insight regarding what flying and fighting in the "big
one" was about.

To Art, Dudley, Vlad, Mike, Gordon, and the others who have gone far
afield to the detriment of meaningful dialogue in RAM:

Give it a rest guys. Take a deep breath, swallow some pride and
refrain from responding. We'll all be better for it.

Ed Rasimus wrote:Give it a rest guys. Take a deep breath, swallow some pride
and
refrain from responding. We'll all be better for it.


Best words I've heard all day! Will do.
Thx, Ed.
VL

Subject: 40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 11/2/03 8:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

To Art:

Congratulations on a very successful site that has given a lot of
folks a lot of insight regarding what flying and fighting in the "big
one" was about.

To Art, Dudley, Vlad, Mike, Gordon, and the others who have gone far
afield to the detriment of meaningful dialogue in RAM:

Give it a rest guys. Take a deep breath, swallow some pride and
refrain from responding. We'll all be better for it.



Good idea Ed. why didn't I think of that?. (sigh)

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
To Art:

Congratulations on a very successful site that has given a lot of
folks a lot of insight regarding what flying and fighting in the "big
one" was about.

To Art, Dudley, Vlad, Mike, Gordon, and the others who have gone far
afield to the detriment of meaningful dialogue in RAM:

Give it a rest guys. Take a deep breath, swallow some pride and
refrain from responding. We'll all be better for it.

My wife has "consulted" with me on this, and she has told me in no uncertain
terms that Ed's right and I should shut up along with the rest of you. Her
only caveat (wives ALWAYS have a caveat) is that she could have told all of
us this before Ed did, which confirms everything is normal around HERE
anyway. :-)
The only remaining question I would have to close this over worked issue
would simply be to comment that I hope Tex Houston is in good health, as I
can't imagine how RAM got through this entire thread without him giving us
all holy hell:-))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Subject: 40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 11/2/03 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

The only remaining question I would have to close this over worked issue
would simply be to comment that I hope Tex Houston is in good health, as I
can't imagine how RAM got through this entire thread without him giving us
all holy hell:-))

Tex, being a flier is above it all. (grin duck and run) Now we even for that
Ocaams Razor and very simple casket gag you hit me with.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: 40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 11/2/03 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

The only remaining question I would have to close this over worked issue
would simply be to comment that I hope Tex Houston is in good health, as
I
can't imagine how RAM got through this entire thread without him giving
us
all holy hell:-))

Tex, being a flier is above it all. (grin duck and run) Now we even for
that
Ocaams Razor and very simple casket gag you hit me with.

Or you could say that as a flier he has his "ups" and "downs" :-))))

Dudley

Subject: 40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 11/2/03 3:13 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: 40,000 Plus Hits. Thank you all.
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 11/2/03 1:52 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

The only remaining question I would have to close this over worked issue
would simply be to comment that I hope Tex Houston is in good health, as
I
can't imagine how RAM got through this entire thread without him giving
us
all holy hell:-))

Tex, being a flier is above it all. (grin duck and run) Now we even for
that
Ocaams Razor and very simple casket gag you hit me with.

Or you could say that as a flier he has his "ups" and "downs" :-))))

Dudley




Aaaargh ! I'll get you for this (s)
..
Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer