the ideal fire/water bomber?

"Private" wrote

Watching a team of CL-215/415s doing circuits is really impressive, they
are much more graceful in the air than they look on the ground or in the
video Dave linked. Real retardant is more effective than plain water but
the CL-215/415 can deliver a lot of plain water. They seem to be able to
work out of quite small lakes.
http://ww.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=119

They are also capable of adding a chemical to the water they scoop, to make
it fire retardant, and usually do.

Interesting thing is that the whole plane (I'm only intimately familiar with
the 215, but I am pretty sure that the 415 is the same in this regard) uses
all manual power for all of the control surfaces except the flaps. They use
muscle power at low speeds, then as speed builds, a spring arrangement lets
aerodynamically boosted tabs move the control surfaces. I was surprised to
learn that.

The whole theory of the plane's design was that it should be simple, and
reliable, and easily maintained in the field without a big support structure
and staff. It was also designed to be very maneuverable, and for it's size,
it is, and needs to be to get into small lakes and narrow canyons.
--
Jim in NC

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

I've watched one put out a real fire in france. Amazing. But the key here
is nearby water source. without one how good is it compared to anything of
similar size and weight?

It can also refill on the ground with a hose and tanker. It can lift a full
load off of a runway, 1200 gallons for a 215, 1400 gallons for a 415. I
would have to do some searching to find out how much runway it would take,
but it isn't much.
--
Jim in NC

"karl gruber" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" I've watched one put out a real fire in france.
Amazing. But the key here
is nearby water source. without one how good is it compared to
anything of similar size and weight?


Bertie

Burnbutt........................how do you propose ANY can put out a
fire without a warter source?


Oh I don't know, you could go past it and blow on it, or pee on it.


you;'re not too god at this trolling thing, are you?

Bertie

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote

I've watched one put out a real fire in france. Amazing. But the key
here is nearby water source. without one how good is it compared to
anything of similar size and weight?

It can also refill on the ground with a hose and tanker. It can lift
a full load off of a runway, 1200 gallons for a 215, 1400 gallons for
a 415. I would have to do some searching to find out how much runway
it would take, but it isn't much.


Oh I know, but that just puts it on even footing with a similar sized
aircraft with a tank installed, in which case, if you were buying an
airplane to protect an area with no bodies of water nearby, you'd be as
well off or better off buying something even larger that's filled the same
way.

Bertie

"Morgans" wrote in
:


"Private" wrote

Watching a team of CL-215/415s doing circuits is really impressive,
they are much more graceful in the air than they look on the ground
or in the video Dave linked. Real retardant is more effective than
plain water but the CL-215/415 can deliver a lot of plain water.
They seem to be able to work out of quite small lakes.
http://ww.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=119

They are also capable of adding a chemical to the water they scoop, to
make it fire retardant, and usually do.

Interesting thing is that the whole plane (I'm only intimately
familiar with the 215, but I am pretty sure that the 415 is the same
in this regard) uses all manual power for all of the control surfaces
except the flaps. They use muscle power at low speeds, then as speed
builds, a spring arrangement lets aerodynamically boosted tabs move
the control surfaces. I was surprised to learn that.



Yes, lots of airplanes that size have servo tabs to boost the controls. The
spring tab actually reduces the effectiveness of the servo tab at higher
speeds, to couteract the servo tab's natural tendency to provide more power
as speed is increased. I'm not familiar with the installation on the
Canadair, but I'd say if you investigated you'd find that's how they work


Bertie

On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 09:40:16 -0300, Dave
wrote:

Probably some of the best vid of the 415 in action!

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcqguPTBteQ


For some raw news footage of some awesome flying check out:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/...=mpvideosemail


I don't know if this was posted here earlier, but it was sent to me by
my son during the fires here.

Ron

"patrick mitchel" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
"Morgans" wrote in
It can also refill on the ground with a hose and tanker. It can
lift a full load off of a runway, 1200 gallons for a 215, 1400
gallons for a 415. I would have to do some searching to find out
how much runway it would take, but it isn't much.
Do they still make the -215 as the av book shows it having the PW
R2800
recip engines- do they still make those or are they using a reman?
Gotta be a lot more econmical at least from the fuel burn at low
altitudes. Pat




No, they haven't made them since the sixties, at the latest. They'd be low
hours rebuilds.


Bertie

"patrick mitchel" wrote in
:

Interesting that according to the wiki art on the CL215 that the los
angeles fire dept helped to sink a US manufacturing of the plane. The
same plane that's working down heah now... Pat



Sounds pretty unlikely. I can't see any reason why production would be
moved to the us unless Canadair couldn't keep up with orders.


Bertie

You don't have to call me God .

I'm not trolling with big glass of cheap whisky though, like
you....Buttburn.


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
.. .
"karl gruber" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" I've watched one put out a real fire in france.
Amazing. But the key here
is nearby water source. without one how good is it compared to
anything of similar size and weight?


Bertie

Burnbutt........................how do you propose ANY can put out a
fire without a warter source?


Oh I don't know, you could go past it and blow on it, or pee on it.


you;'re not too god at this trolling thing, are you?

Bertie

"karl gruber" wrote in news:fg3nhf$lii$1
@aioe.org:

You don't have to call me God .

OK, I won't.


I'm not trolling with big glass of cheap whisky though, like
you....Buttburn.


Maybe you should try it. It certainly couldn't do your style much harm.



Bertie