What if we ignored N. Africa and the MTO?

"ArtKramr" wrote
What then? The war in central Europe (ETO) could have gotten our full
resouces, D Day would have been a year earlier and the war would have
been
over a lot sooner, German troops in No. Africa and the MTO would have
simply
been isolated and would died on the vine. Why not?

Mainly because we would have been handed our heads, trying to invade in
mid-1943. The short reason would be that the Sovs wouldn't have whittled
down the Wehrmacht enough at that point to make a Western Front possible.
Also the Brits wouldn't go. Churchill and the Imperial General Staff were
scared stiff of a direct confrontation with the Wehrmacht based on their
experience in 1940.

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message
...

"ArtKramr" wrote
What then? The war in central Europe (ETO) could have gotten our full
resouces, D Day would have been a year earlier and the war would have
been
over a lot sooner, German troops in No. Africa and the MTO would have
simply
been isolated and would died on the vine. Why not?

Mainly because we would have been handed our heads, trying to invade in
mid-1943.

I just read "An Army at Dawn". Given the mistakes the Allies made invading
North Africa, trying to invade France without the lessons we learned in
Operation Torch would have been disastrous.

Glenn D.

In message , Paul F Austin
writes
"ArtKramr" wrote
What then? The war in central Europe (ETO) could have gotten our full
resouces, D Day would have been a year earlier and the war would have
been
over a lot sooner, German troops in No. Africa and the MTO would have
simply
been isolated and would died on the vine. Why not?

Mainly because we would have been handed our heads, trying to invade in
mid-1943. The short reason would be that the Sovs wouldn't have whittled
down the Wehrmacht enough at that point to make a Western Front possible.
Also the Brits wouldn't go. Churchill and the Imperial General Staff were
scared stiff of a direct confrontation with the Wehrmacht based on their
experience in 1940.

And at Dieppe in 1942; that experimental raid, while a bloody tactical
failure, probably saved a great many lives in showing just how difficult
opposed amphibious operations really were and what equipment and
training was needed to have a chance at success. Merely throwing brave
troops at the beach and hoping for the best was proved to be a recipe
for disaster.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

In article ,
"Paul J. Adam" writes:
In message , Paul F Austin
writes
"ArtKramr" wrote
What then? The war in central Europe (ETO) could have gotten our full
resouces, D Day would have been a year earlier and the war would have
been
over a lot sooner, German troops in No. Africa and the MTO would have
simply
been isolated and would died on the vine. Why not?

Mainly because we would have been handed our heads, trying to invade in
mid-1943. The short reason would be that the Sovs wouldn't have whittled
down the Wehrmacht enough at that point to make a Western Front possible.
Also the Brits wouldn't go. Churchill and the Imperial General Staff were
scared stiff of a direct confrontation with the Wehrmacht based on their
experience in 1940.

And at Dieppe in 1942; that experimental raid, while a bloody tactical
failure, probably saved a great many lives in showing just how difficult
opposed amphibious operations really were and what equipment and
training was needed to have a chance at success. Merely throwing brave
troops at the beach and hoping for the best was proved to be a recipe
for disaster.

Well, Dieppe did teach that a compromised operation, launched with no
support by a megalomanaical idiot with no authority to do so, using
untrained troops and inadequate equipment against prepared defences
was a Very Bad Idea.

How Mountbatten (Who ordered the operation without the required
coordination with teh RAF or RN, and without the required approval of
his higher-ups, to the point of lieing to his own staff about it)
managed to survive that fiasco is asonishing. Lesser screwups in the
U.S. had found themselves cahiered (Kimmel and Short), or placed in
charge of the Coastal Defences of Wyoming (Fredenhall).

Mind you, Mountbatten got the job of head of S.O.E. after losing,
what, 2-3 Destroyers that he'd been commanding?

I'd have to say that Dieppe was more an example of failure in Command,
rather than of the difficulty of staging a cross-Channel invasion.

Not that the Allies would have been ready much before 1944 anyway.

--
Pete Stickney
A strong conviction that something must be done is the parent of many
bad measures. -- Daniel Webster