Tornado - fast belly landing

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 18:00:11 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
.. .

Then one day it dawned on me...."Eureka", I cried!


You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was
afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

Dudley Henriques

Actually, I have it on good authority that the last guy to REALLY cry
"EUREKA" was Archimedes. He yelled it to distract his wife who was
PO'd about all the water on the bathroom floor.

No wonder she was ****ed at him. Didn't he realize that with the tub full to
the brim like that, when he put his fat ass in there the water was going to
spill out all over the place? :-)))) Actually, I guess he didn't because
word has it.......at least in Navy circles anyway, that when he got in, the
biggest "idea balloon" in history formed right over his head as he sat in
the tub waiting for the wife bashing, and ship building has never been the
same since!!!!
:-)
Dudley

Dudley asked:
You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

I think the first time that I thought it all the way through, my response was
"OH SH*T", then I thought about about the warning that I recieved about the
knee clearance on the B-57 ballastic seat and my second thought on the subject
was "I'M SCREWED". Then considering the alternate way out on the A model B-57
was through the side entrance door my thought changed to "I could have gone
into the infantry"

Oxmoron1
MFE

"OXMORON1" wrote in message
...
Dudley asked:
You actually cried EUREKA??? I've ALWAYS wanted to do that, but I was
afraid
one of those balloon thingies would form over my head; pick me up and I'd
float away. :-)))))

I think the first time that I thought it all the way through, my response
was
"OH SH*T", then I thought about about the warning that I recieved about
the
knee clearance on the B-57 ballastic seat and my second thought on the
subject
was "I'M SCREWED". Then considering the alternate way out on the A model
B-57
was through the side entrance door my thought changed to "I could have
gone
into the infantry"

Oxmoron1
MFE

I remember thinking the same thing climbing into an A4. I stuck my legs down
those tunnels and said to myself, "I don't give a **** WHAT the f**c
McDonnell Douglas says, if I have to get out of this GD thing, my legs are
staying down there for sure!!!"
:-)))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....


I just listened to an interview with the RAF aircrew.

It seems they have zero zero seats so the plan was to try and put it down
on the runway but punch out it it started to slew off onto the grass
They reported that the landing was actually quite straightforward
and the impact was gentle.


Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....


I just listened to an interview with the RAF aircrew.

It seems they have zero zero seats so the plan was to try and put it down
on the runway but punch out it it started to slew off onto the grass
They reported that the landing was actually quite straightforward
and the impact was gentle.

Just be advised that a planned wheels up in a high performance jet on a
prepared surface is one thing. A belly landing off in the boonies is quite
another.
The crew in this case seems like they had a plan. I might have tried this
one myself :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Dudley Henriques wrote:

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 15:29:22 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


Add in that the landing speed, under optimal conditions will be in the
140 mph or faster range (remember to convert knots to MPH.)

Now, go back and take that car into the boonies at that speed.

Survivable? I think I'll try out this new-fangled explosive seat
thingie....


I just listened to an interview with the RAF aircrew.

It seems they have zero zero seats so the plan was to try and put it down
on the runway but punch out it it started to slew off onto the grass
They reported that the landing was actually quite straightforward
and the impact was gentle.

Just be advised that a planned wheels up in a high performance jet on a
prepared surface is one thing. A belly landing off in the boonies is quite
another.
The crew in this case seems like they had a plan. I might have tried this
one myself :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

The runway was also carpeted with foam.....

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...


I just listened to an interview with the RAF aircrew.

It seems they have zero zero seats so the plan was to try and put it down
on the runway but punch out it it started to slew off onto the grass
They reported that the landing was actually quite straightforward
and the impact was gentle.


Keith

I saw a Blue Angles F-4 do a gear-up landing at the airport in Cedar Rapids,
IA, about 1970 or so. He did the same thing...he rode it out until the
plane began to slew off the runway, and then he ejected. He made it look
pretty easy... and I also remember that the Blue Angles ground crew jumped
into a station wagon and beat the fire/rescue people to him.

Oh, one other factor was that he lit the afterburners when he realized that
his wheels were up, and gave himself quite a push down the runway.

Don H.

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 18:27:22 -0600, "Don Harstad"
wrote:

I saw a Blue Angles F-4 do a gear-up landing at the airport in Cedar Rapids,
IA, about 1970 or so. He did the same thing...he rode it out until the
plane began to slew off the runway, and then he ejected. He made it look
pretty easy... and I also remember that the Blue Angles ground crew jumped
into a station wagon and beat the fire/rescue people to him.

Oh, one other factor was that he lit the afterburners when he realized that
his wheels were up, and gave himself quite a push down the runway.

Oh, no, and I though "It takes afterburner to taxi" was the punchline
to an old joke.

I might have a slide of this, before the ejection. It's pretty ratty,
but it's definitely a Blue Angels F-4 sliding down the runway, with a
lot of flame.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 09:56:05 -0000, "MichaelJP" wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3292551.stm

What do you think, would the airframe be a write-off?

Would the USAF do this or just eject as the safer, although more expensive
option?

- Michael


Depends on the airplane. Based on the shape, sonme can be safely
bellied in, some can't. The pilots are told which...

Ross "Roscoe" Dillon
USAF Flight Tester
(B-2, F-16, F-15, F-5, T-37, T-38, C-5, QF-106)

Would the USAF do this or just eject as the safer, although more expensive
option?

- Michael

The A-10 was designed for ease of repair after a belly-landing. The wheels
stick out of the bottom of the gear pods, and differential braking is still
available.

When sitting on its belly, the GAU-8 (the 30mm cannon in the nose) is
protected from damage by having the bottom of the vertical stabs ground off
(the Hog becomes a tail-sitter with the gear still up) instead of the nose
digging in and taking the brunt of the damage. Hogs that have landed this
way have been lifted up with a crane, the gear pried down, bottoms of the
vertical stabs fixed and back into flying condition in no time.

Additionally, should only the nose gear come down, it is a better option to
actually land with the gear fully retracted. I think there are other
non-desirable landing configurations, but I don't have the checklist in
front of me right now.

In case you were wondering, belly landings with dual-engine flameout are not
recommended in the A-10, even though the jet has manual reversion flight
controls (necessary for control once the engine-driven hydraulic pumps are
not operating). The -1 says to get out of the jet and give it back to the
taxpayers if you can't get the motors restarted before the minimum
controlled (2,000' AGL) or uncontrolled (4,000' AGL) ejection altitudes. If
you pull the handles and the seat doesn't work, you have the rest of your
life to figure it out.