Has there ever been an off-center gun?

From: (WaltBJ)

FWIW I understand the initial idea for the 'Puff' series gunships was
the technique of servicing missionary stations in the Amazon with
Piper Super Cubs by flying in a tight circle while lowering a bucket
on a rope. Due to aero drag on the rope the bucket lagged behind and
pivoted on the polar axis of the circle and the ground people could
remove their mail, etc, and place their outgoing mail and requests in
the bucket which was then hauled back up. The rotation was slow enough
to be no problem, and then the curvature of the rope reminded someone
of the trajectory of a gun so - voila!

There was a photograph in National Geographic where a man in the Amazon is
reaching up towards a can. He had either just released it or was reaching for
it. The aircraft that had lowered it was off in the distance in the same
photograph.

The particular article was printed in the mid 1960s. 1967 or so if memory
serves.

It amazes me I can't remember 24 hours ago yet I can remember 35 years ago.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"Hobo" wrote in message
...

Has there ever been an aircraft with a gun permanently aligned
off-center?

Yes, several going as far back at least as far as WWI.
I'm afraid I'm brain locking on the designations though. In
Vietnam B-57 had gun packs fitted that shot down at a very
sharp angle- may even have been vertical- for night straffing
the trail.

I don't mean swivel mounted, but permanently fixed at a
point other than straight ahead.

Wouldn't a gun pointed at a downward angle make ground attack easier?

I don't know why the idea keeps failing to catch on; it could
be it's too single purpose for fighters or just not as easy to
aim.

This is wonderful. Can either of you or anybody point me to more
information about this service?

I realize there are only 12 issues of Geographic a year, but it would
help if I could narrow it down.

On 08 Dec 2003 06:06:09 GMT, (B2431) wrote:

FWIW I understand the initial idea for the 'Puff' series gunships was
the technique of servicing missionary stations in the Amazon with
Piper Super Cubs by flying in a tight circle while lowering a bucket
on a rope. Due to aero drag on the rope the bucket lagged behind and
pivoted on the polar axis of the circle and the ground people could
remove their mail, etc, and place their outgoing mail and requests in
the bucket which was then hauled back up. The rotation was slow enough
to be no problem, and then the curvature of the rope reminded someone
of the trajectory of a gun so - voila!

There was a photograph in National Geographic where a man in the Amazon is
reaching up towards a can. He had either just released it or was reaching for
it. The aircraft that had lowered it was off in the distance in the same
photograph.

The particular article was printed in the mid 1960s. 1967 or so if memory
serves.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

I don't know why the idea keeps failing to catch on; it could
be it's too single purpose for fighters or just not as easy to
aim.


I think the A-10's gun might be downward pointed a bit... but most fighters
wouldn't use a downward-pointing one because it is unsuitable for a-a work.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 05:07:41 -0500, Cub Driver
wrote:


This is wonderful. Can either of you or anybody point me to more
information about this service?

I realize there are only 12 issues of Geographic a year, but it would
help if I could narrow it down.


I remember the same photo and I'm pretty sure it's a mid-'60s issue,
probably from 1965-1967.

The photo shows somebody either putting mail in or pulling mail out of
a bucket hanging on a rope, and you can see the aircraft that's
dropping the bucket flying at altitude in the background.

I did a lookup on NGS' pubs website at
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pu...s/explore.html
and got some possibilities:

keyword "Amazon" - Oct 1972 "Amazon--The River Sea"
Aug 1970 - "Colombia, from Amazon to Spanish
Main"
May 1964 - "Indians of the Amazon Darkness"
March 1959 - "Children of the Sun and Moon"
keyword "Colombia" May 1966 "Capturing Strange Creatures in Colombia"
Aug 1970 "Colombia, from Amazon to Spanish Main"
Feb 1966 "Flamboyant Is the Word for Bolivia"

There are many possibilities - try different keywords for various SA
countries and narrow down the results by date.

John Hairell )

"Bob Martin" wrote in message ...
I don't know why the idea keeps failing to catch on; it could
be it's too single purpose for fighters or just not as easy to
aim.


I think the A-10's gun might be downward pointed a bit... but most fighters
wouldn't use a downward-pointing one because it is unsuitable for a-a work.

The Hog's overall assembly is not on the jet's centerline, but it's
arranged so that the firing barrel is centered up, probably perfectly
squared, when it fires. Given the power of that particular weapon,
I'd be a little surprised if the firing barrel was anything BUT
perfectly square to the centerline (both X and Y axis). Of course, I
also seem to recall that the shell basically traces a straight line
from barrel to "effective range", and doesn't need drop factored in.

Thanks, I'll look for it.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 11:35:02 -0500, John Hairell
wrote:

I remember the same photo and I'm pretty sure it's a mid-'60s issue,
probably from 1965-1967.

The photo shows somebody either putting mail in or pulling mail out of
a bucket hanging on a rope, and you can see the aircraft that's
dropping the bucket flying at altitude in the background.

I did a lookup on NGS' pubs website at
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pu...s/explore.html
and got some possibilities:

keyword "Amazon" - Oct 1972 "Amazon--The River Sea"
Aug 1970 - "Colombia, from Amazon to Spanish
Main"
May 1964 - "Indians of the Amazon Darkness"
March 1959 - "Children of the Sun and Moon"
keyword "Colombia" May 1966 "Capturing Strange Creatures in Colombia"
Aug 1970 "Colombia, from Amazon to Spanish Main"
Feb 1966 "Flamboyant Is the Word for Bolivia"

There are many possibilities - try different keywords for various SA
countries and narrow down the results by date.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

The mail/supplies in the bucket trick goes back farther than that. IIRC the
"bucket trick" was the inspiration for the AC-47 development for holding the
fire on the target in a steep banked turn.

In addition to the Amazon, the technique was used by missionaries in Borneo,
both sometime in the late twenties or early thirties.

Oxmoron1
Don't ask me where I read it,but it was a long time ago.

(Jeb Hoge) wrote:

Of course, I
also seem to recall that the shell basically traces a straight line
from barrel to "effective range", and doesn't need drop factored in.

Eh?... surely you're not saying that the rounds don't drop in
flight?...I hope?...
--

-Gord.

Of course, I
also seem to recall that the shell basically traces a straight line
from barrel to "effective range", and doesn't need drop factored in.

Eh?... surely you're not saying that the rounds don't drop in
flight?...I hope?...


Well, I know the firing barrel is centered laterally, but I think the gun
itself may be angled down a couple degrees (though still passing through the
center of gravity of the aircraft, so as to not produce any pitching
moment), though probably not more than 2 or 3. This would help with gun
tracking and make strafing runs a little safer.

As far as the "straight line" from the barrel... the muzzle velocity of the
GAU-8/A is such that, although the bullets do drop in flight (to not do so
would either imply lift being generated, or laws of physics being violated),
the drop is considered negligible, and therefore the gunsight is a simple
fixed reticle in the HUD.

For example... at 4000 feet, the bullets will only drop about 10
feet--random dispersion will be greater than that.