What is a nth Generation fighter?

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
5th Generation (???) - MiG 1.42, Su-30 series or FA/22, F-35

Fourth.

Hmmm, okay Mary what would a 5th Generation fighter be? They are using
that
term fairly regularly when discussing the Su-30 family.

I hate to use Pravda as a source, but according to it the Russians are just
now envisioning a fifth generation fighter, so that would seem to nix that
definition for the Su-30...

english.pravda.ru/society/2002/07/16/32583.html

Of course other Russian sources do indicate that the Su-32 is what they term
a fifth generation aircraft...

www.aeronautics.ru/nws001/tass054.htm

Then we have LMCO and Saab claiming the F-16 (later blocks) and JAS-39 are
*both* fourth generation fighters...

www.awgnet.com/shownews/today/airfrm5.htm

And another source lumps the F-22, Gripen, and Rafael into the fourth
generation heap...

www.strategicstudies.org/stratpol/SP8-999e.htm

And, almost laughably, the Chinese have claimed parentage of a fourth
generation fighter 9as if they ever really made it much past the second
generation, by anybody's standards)...

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/20...7_103384.shtml

What all this tells me is that (a) there is no standard convention for
determining what generation a fighter is, and (b) it is more of a marketing
ploy than anything else (witness Saab's past harping about allegedly having
the only fourth generation fighter in service).

Brooks



BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Then we have LMCO and Saab claiming the F-16 (later blocks) and JAS-39 are
*both* fourth generation fighters...

www.awgnet.com/shownews/today/airfrm5.htm


F-16 Block 60 starts to really push the 4th generation classification though.
It would probably fall under 4+ or 4.5



Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

On 14 Dec 2003 22:11:39 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

5th Generation (???) - MiG 1.42, Su-30 series or FA/22, F-35

Fourth.

Hmmm, okay Mary what would a 5th Generation fighter be? They are using that
term fairly regularly when discussing the Su-30 family.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

IMHO it would be the F-22 and F-35. The first generation to integrate true stealth,
super cruise (F-22) a new generation of electronics, etc.

Al Minyard

In message , Alan Minyard
writes
On 14 Dec 2003 22:11:39 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:
Hmmm, okay Mary what would a 5th Generation fighter be? They are using that
term fairly regularly when discussing the Su-30 family.

IMHO it would be the F-22 and F-35. The first generation to
integrate true stealth,
super cruise (F-22) a new generation of electronics, etc.

See my other post. Supercruise is 5th generation if you're selling
F-22s, unless you're looking at Typhoon in which case supercruise is
irrelevant and stealth is crucial... and, again, many of those 'new
generation electronics' are common to both platforms.

--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
news
On 14 Dec 2003 22:11:39 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

5th Generation (???) - MiG 1.42, Su-30 series or FA/22, F-35

Fourth.

Hmmm, okay Mary what would a 5th Generation fighter be? They are using
that
term fairly regularly when discussing the Su-30 family.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

IMHO it would be the F-22 and F-35. The first generation to integrate true
stealth,
super cruise (F-22) a new generation of electronics, etc.

Well, perhaps the F-35 and a flock of mindless bots.

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Could anyone tell me examples of 1st..5th? generation fighters and
other planes and what seperates them? (Apart from time)


Good question, and one I asked an intel officer shortly after becoming
mission
qualified in the BUFF. Here's the way he layed it out:

1st Generation (early jet fighter) - MiG-15,17,19 or F-84, F-86

I believe you'd want to move the Mig-19 to the next category--it was IIRC
"early supersonic" on the Soviet side, generally comparable to the F-100.


2nd Generation (early supersonic)- MiG-21 or Century Series

3rd Generation (advanced supersonic) - MiG-23 or F-4

4th Generation ("next generation") - MiG-25, 29, 31, Su-27 or F-14,15,16

5th Generation (???) - MiG 1.42, Su-30 series or FA/22, F-35

Not sure how universaly accepted that is. I thought there was a lot of
hoopla a couple of years back about the JAS-39 being (at least claimed to
be) the "first" fourth generation fighter to enter service, with the F/A-22,
F-35, Rafael, and Eurofighter being lumped into that category as well?

Brooks




BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Not sure how universaly accepted that is. I thought there was a lot of
hoopla a couple of years back about the JAS-39 being (at least claimed to
be) the "first" fourth generation fighter to enter service, with the F/A-22,
F-35, Rafael, and Eurofighter being lumped into that category as well?

Well, everytime someone argues in favor of more FA-22s, they argue about the
proliferation of Russian *5th Generation* fighters such as the Su-30
family.....or am I (a "second generation" bomber guy) not hearing too well?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Not sure how universaly accepted that is. I thought there was a lot of
hoopla a couple of years back about the JAS-39 being (at least claimed to
be) the "first" fourth generation fighter to enter service, with the
F/A-22,
F-35, Rafael, and Eurofighter being lumped into that category as well?

Well, everytime someone argues in favor of more FA-22s, they argue about
the
proliferation of Russian *5th Generation* fighters such as the Su-30
family.....or am I (a "second generation" bomber guy) not hearing too
well?

I fear the F/A-22 and Su-30 ram fanatics' spew bears little resemblence to
anything real. The Su-30 is a wet dream and the F/A-22 doesn't look like a
good bet either. As a marketing ploy, I can see how calling the airplanes a
new generation would have value.

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:25:16 GMT, Kevin Brooks wrote:

Not sure how universaly accepted that is. I thought there was a lot of
hoopla a couple of years back about the JAS-39 being (at least claimed to
be) the "first" fourth generation fighter to enter service, with the F/A-22,
F-35, Rafael, and Eurofighter being lumped into that category as well?

Gripen, Rafale, and Typhoon should certainly belong to the same
generation, due to their similarities, especially all being
dynamically unstable and relying on the computer to fly the plane.

--
"It's easier to find people online who openly support the KKK than
people who openly support the RIAA" -- comment on Wikipedia
(Email: , but first subtract 275 and reverse
the last two letters).

"phil hunt" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:25:16 GMT, Kevin Brooks
wrote:

Not sure how universaly accepted that is. I thought there was a lot of
hoopla a couple of years back about the JAS-39 being (at least claimed to
be) the "first" fourth generation fighter to enter service, with the
F/A-22,
F-35, Rafael, and Eurofighter being lumped into that category as well?

Gripen, Rafale, and Typhoon should certainly belong to the same
generation, due to their similarities, especially all being
dynamically unstable and relying on the computer to fly the plane.

Yep. The point however being that there appear to be two differing
conventions (very loosely used term in this case) for defining these
generations. One claims that the latest crop of products are fourth
generation, another claims that they (or some of them, like the F/A-22) are
fifth generation. Saab and Lockheed Martin seem to have settled on the four
generation model at present, from what I have read.

Brooks