Hiroshima-- are we projecting backwards?

"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
It brings to mind the wild-eyed cop, Riggs, played by Mel Gibson in
the Lethal Weapon series. While the criminals take advantage of the
rationality of the politically correct law-enforcement officer, an
encounter with Riggs, can often result in more dire consequences.

Wasn't Nixon alleged to use this gambit, of appearing to be irrational
in order to make his actions harder to predict and the consequences of
error potentially worse?

I'm running on very hazy memory and can't find a source, so would
welcome correction or clarification.

Yes, the Madman principle. Kissinger played the stable role.

Guy

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
"Paul J. Adam" wrote:

In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
It brings to mind the wild-eyed cop, Riggs, played by Mel Gibson in
the Lethal Weapon series. While the criminals take advantage of the
rationality of the politically correct law-enforcement officer, an
encounter with Riggs, can often result in more dire consequences.

Wasn't Nixon alleged to use this gambit, of appearing to be irrational
in order to make his actions harder to predict and the consequences of
error potentially worse?

I'm running on very hazy memory and can't find a source, so would
welcome correction or clarification.

Yes, the Madman principle. Kissinger played the stable role.

Kissenger is a wanted criminal.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:26:21 +0000, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
It brings to mind the wild-eyed cop, Riggs, played by Mel Gibson in
the Lethal Weapon series. While the criminals take advantage of the
rationality of the politically correct law-enforcement officer, an
encounter with Riggs, can often result in more dire consequences.

Wasn't Nixon alleged to use this gambit, of appearing to be irrational
in order to make his actions harder to predict and the consequences of
error potentially worse?

I'm running on very hazy memory and can't find a source, so would
welcome correction or clarification.

I would be reluctant to attribute such behavior and would consider it
more likely a political interpretation for the benefit of opponents.

It was Nixon (despite the obvious first association with that name),
who coordinated Vietnamization to shift the burden of SEA to the
locals, who opened the door to a "two China" policy and recognition of
a billion people as the "real" China, who implemented Linebacker I/II
to finally conclude the Vietnam involvement and gain the release of
our POWs, and who when faced with accusations of malfeasance in office
and impeachment took a more honorable course of action and resigned.

As a political science teacher and international relations teacher,
I'd certainly be revisionist if I were to introduce major power leader
irrationality as a strategy, particularly in a world that was during
Nixon's tenure governed by the concept of M.A.D.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:26:21 +0000, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

As a political science teacher and international relations teacher,
I'd certainly be revisionist if I were to introduce major power leader
irrationality as a strategy, particularly in a world that was during
Nixon's tenure governed by the concept of M.A.D.

Paul just saw that movie where Nixon was a drunken ranter and thought it was
real. It is also common, amoung those living outide the US, to believe this
is a dangerous place, due to the presentation of our society in media.

From: "Tarver Engineering"

Kissenger is a wanted criminal.

Bye whom?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Ed Rasimus wrote:

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:26:21 +0000, "Paul J. Adam"
wrote:

In message , Ed Rasimus
writes
It brings to mind the wild-eyed cop, Riggs, played by Mel Gibson in
the Lethal Weapon series. While the criminals take advantage of the
rationality of the politically correct law-enforcement officer, an
encounter with Riggs, can often result in more dire consequences.

Wasn't Nixon alleged to use this gambit, of appearing to be irrational
in order to make his actions harder to predict and the consequences of
error potentially worse?

I'm running on very hazy memory and can't find a source, so would
welcome correction or clarification.

I would be reluctant to attribute such behavior and would consider it
more likely a political interpretation for the benefit of opponents.

It was Nixon (despite the obvious first association with that name),
who coordinated Vietnamization to shift the burden of SEA to the
locals, who opened the door to a "two China" policy and recognition of
a billion people as the "real" China, who implemented Linebacker I/II
to finally conclude the Vietnam involvement and gain the release of
our POWs, and who when faced with accusations of malfeasance in office
and impeachment took a more honorable course of action and resigned.

"Accusations" of malfeasance in office? Ed, are you kidding? There was no
doubt whatsoever of his guilt (if you doubt that, I suggest you listen to
the tapes that have been released, or read the transcripts; they're
online), he was going to be convicted. Especially the "Smoking Gun" and
"Cancer on the Presidency" ones. Here's a sample from the latter, where
Nixon and Dean discuss paying hush money to the plumbers and others:

MARCH 21, 1973, FROM 10:12 TO 11:55 A.M.


DEAN: Right. Uh, so that's, that's it. That's the, the extent of the
knowledge. Now, where, where are the soft spots on this? Well, first of
all, there's the, there's the problem of the continued blackmail.

PRESIDENT: Right.

DEAN: ...which will not only go on now, it'll go on when these people are
in prison, and it will compound the obstruction of justice situation. It'll
cost money. It's dangerous. Nobody, nothing--people around here are not
pros at this sort of thing. This is the sort of thing Mafia people can do:
washing money, getting clean money, and things like that, uh--we're--we
just don't know about those (noise) things, because we're-not used to, you
know--we are not criminals and not used to dealing in that business. It's,
uh, it's, uh--

PRESIDENT: That's right.

DEAN: It's tough thing to know how to do.

PRESIDENT: Maybe we can't even do that. MARCH 21, 1973, FROM 10:12 TO 11:55
A.M.

DEAN: That's right. It's a real problem as to whether we could even do it.
Plus there's a real problem in raising money. Uh, Mitchell has been working
on raising some money. Uh, feeling he's got, you know, he's got one, he's
one of the ones with the most to lose. Uh, but there's no denying the fact
that the White House, and uh, Ehrlichman, Haldeman, Dean are involved in
some of the early money decisions.

PRESIDENT: How much money do you need?

DEAN: I would say these people are going to cost, uh, a million dollars
over the next, uh, - two years. (Pause)

PRESIDENT: We could get that.

DEAN: Uh, huh.

PRESIDENT: You, on the money, if you need the money, I mean, uh' you could
get the money. Let's say--

DEAN: Well, I think that we're going--

PRESIDENT: What I mean is, you could, you could get a million dollars. And
you could get it in cash. I, I know where it could be gotten.

DEAN: Uh, huh.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If you consider resigning to avoid definite conviction and thus getting a
free pass from Ford, 'honorable', then we have a very different conception
of the meaning of the word.


As a political science teacher and international relations teacher,
I'd certainly be revisionist if I were to introduce major power leader
irrationality as a strategy, particularly in a world that was during
Nixon's tenure governed by the concept of M.A.D.

See Kissinger's books, where he says he ascribed just such behavior to
Nixon to the North Vietnamese. Of course, neither Henry K. or that
paranoid creep Tricky Dick are/were exactly known for their veracity when
they are describing their own behavior, but enough other material is
available to confirm their accounts.

Guy

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "Tarver Engineering"

Kissenger is a wanted criminal.

Bye whom?

Brussels.

On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:59:44 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote:

It was Nixon (despite the obvious first association with that name),
who coordinated Vietnamization to shift the burden of SEA to the
locals, who opened the door to a "two China" policy and recognition of
a billion people as the "real" China, who implemented Linebacker I/II
to finally conclude the Vietnam involvement and gain the release of
our POWs, and who when faced with accusations of malfeasance in office
and impeachment took a more honorable course of action and resigned.

"Accusations" of malfeasance in office? Ed, are you kidding? There was no
doubt whatsoever of his guilt (if you doubt that, I suggest you listen to
the tapes that have been released, or read the transcripts; they're
online), he was going to be convicted. Especially the "Smoking Gun" and
"Cancer on the Presidency" ones. Here's a sample from the latter, where
Nixon and Dean discuss paying hush money to the plumbers and others:

I really didn't want to get into a revisitation of Watergate. Let us
agree to disagree on the subject. The fact that I alluded to is that
Nixon was accused in a political forum and that impeachment, while we
can assume that it would have been voted, did not come to a vote
because Nixon resigned.

There were no criminal charges made against the President. No
arraignments, no indictment. There might have been, but the
combination of the resignation and the preemptive pardon from Ford
leaves us never knowing.

Without an impeachment, an indictment or formal charges, the assertion
that "he was going to be convicted" is conjecture. Probably true, but
again, something that didn't come to pass.

My implication, which I'll now spell out, is that since 1974 we have
experienced an actual impeachment, actual criminal charges, an actual
Senate trial and more against a sitting President. And, I wanted to
point out that while the Nixon presidency is forever besmirched, there
were positive outcomes from the administration.

If you consider resigning to avoid definite conviction and thus getting a
free pass from Ford, 'honorable', then we have a very different conception
of the meaning of the word.

I don't think I used the word "honorable" in my statement regarding
Nixon achievements. See above regarding "definite conviction" and
please revisit the Clinton inauguration eve pardons of January 2001
regarding the unlimited (and unquestionable) power of the President to
pardon.

To imply that someone receiving a presidential pardon is somehow then
tainted with dishonor is disingenous.


As a political science teacher and international relations teacher,
I'd certainly be revisionist if I were to introduce major power leader
irrationality as a strategy, particularly in a world that was during
Nixon's tenure governed by the concept of M.A.D.

See Kissinger's books, where he says he ascribed just such behavior to
Nixon to the North Vietnamese. Of course, neither Henry K. or that
paranoid creep Tricky Dick are/were exactly known for their veracity when
they are describing their own behavior, but enough other material is
available to confirm their accounts.

It's been a while since I read "White House Years" and strangely
enough, in scanning the shelves just know, I appear to have discarded
it. A quick Web search disclosed a Brit author (anti-war) named
Shawcross who appears to have applied some home baked psychological
analysis to Nixon and Kissinger in a suspect diatribe and another work
by Jeffrey Kimball that similarly used the description of methodical
irrationality.

I find it a bit difficult, however, to engage in political discussion
when it involves name-calling such as "that paranoid creep Tricky
Dick." Sorry, Guy, I've known you for a long time, but in political
discussion I've found that name calling usually is one of those
terminal refuges of those with more emotion than rationale in their
analysis.

I don't disagree that Nixon's presidency ended in disrepute. And, I
also assert that he had some successes.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...

Wasn't Nixon alleged to use this gambit, of appearing to be irrational
in order to make his actions harder to predict and the consequences of
error potentially worse?

The Madman gambit. Part (at the beginning of his first term, the
centerpiece) of his secret plan to get out of the Vietnam war was to
try and act as crazy as possible. He would be the bad cop with his
finger on the button, making all sorts of crazy threats and putting
nuclear forces on high alert and such. Make the Russians (and
Vietnamese, though the chronic American cold war obsession with
Soviets to the exclusion of all else meant that they were ignored in
these calculations, mostly) squirm and think that maybe he was crazy
enough to go nuclear over Vietnam. Kissinger would be the good cop,
offering negotiations to the Russians and such.

It didn't work. Among other reasons, the US completely failed to see
how much the Vietnam war was local, and not directed from Moscow (a
consistent failure of American intel- they had NIE's on Soviet
internal politics in 1989 that don't mention Boris Yeltsin at all, at
a time when he was certainly more popular then Gorbi). Also, the
Soviets apparently failed to pick up on all of his crazy actions, but
never seriously considered that the US would go nuclear.

Chris Manteuffel

From: "Tarver Engineering"


"B2431" wrote in message

From: "Tarver Engineering"

Kissenger is a wanted criminal.

Bye whom?

Brussels.


Traver, under Belgian law anyone can charge anyone with war crimes. Now please
provide proof a charge has been filed and that a warrant has been issued. If
they don't exist then he's not "wanted."

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired