Rent vs. Own

As an owner, I would find it hard to start renting. Too old and too fussy.
But the cost and aggravation is quite a bit higher as many have already
stated. To some this is a wonderful mental and financial challenge. To
others, it is a pain in the ass. After 14 years of ownership, I have gone
from one end of the spectrum to the other.

Well said, Mike. As time goes on, I'm starting to see your points.

Example: We've owned planes for ten years now. I do a fair amount of my
own maintenance, and have participated in every annual. I've laid on my
back in puddles of gas and oil, unscrewing access panel and other screws,
I've stood on my head under the panel, poking at loose wires. I've
hand-packed bearings with grease, learned a lot, got really dirty, and had
great fun.

Except now I'm finding these things cause me a lot more pain than they used
to. I'm ten years older, and I grunt and groan and twitch as I contort
myself into small spaces, and I sure don't jump off the front of the wing
anymore. Ibuprofen is my friend, and there were times, during this annual,
that it just wasn't fun anymore.

Flying with my son has re-opened my eyes to the ease of flying rental
planes. Yesterday, my 17 year old son (and new pilot) spent a few hours in
the shop, helping with the annual. I showed him how to take the nose wheel
off the plane, how to repack the wheel bearings, and lots of other little
stuff. My A&P walked him through some other items, and I'm sure he learned
a lot. Then we went over to the FBO to rent the 150 so he could do a few
turns around the pattern.

It was so simple! The line guys even asked him if he'd like the plane put
in the big hangar, so he could preflight indoors! The fuel was topped off
for him, and everything was ship-shape, without lifting a finger. What a
contrast to the effort we had put into our own plane that morning!

Still, we had to haul all of our stuff -- headphones, log books, charts,
etc. That was a pain. And the plane had just been flown by...whom? Was
it landed hard? Rolled inverted on its last flight? Is a control cable
frayed? How many hours are on the engine?

A jillion things that I never worry about in Atlas went through my head as
we rolled out to the runway in that rental... Suddenly the grease under my
fingernails seemed worth it, again.

To the OP: If you can afford it, do it. Owning your own plane is wonderful.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On 2008-02-16, Jay Honeck wrote:
To the OP: If you can afford it, do it. Owning your own plane is wonderful.

I'm coming at this from the other direction. I've always rented, but I'm
seriously considering buying. Not only that, I'm considering buying a new
aircraft.

Everything Jay said is true: you never know what the real, complete
condition of the airplane is if you rent. You can't leave your stuff in it.
You might well have to clean up after the last guy. It might not even be
there at the appointed time, if the previous renter couldn't get it back
home in time.

Owning is a daunting prospect for me. I'm looking at spending $130-160K. The
note, plus hangar rent, plus maintenance, plus fuel, plus lots of other
stuff, is going to be a big chunk of money every month. I'm finally in a
position where I can afford it, thankfully. Offsetting the big ticket is
that I'll fly a new aircraft for the first time in my life (I last flew
before Cessna started building piston singles again), and that I'll get to
have the plane the way I want it (including a specific N-number, N55ZC,
without having to pay for a paint job).

If it weren't for medical issues, I'd be looking at an AA-5B instead of a
Zodiac or Sierra. The note would be smaller, but the maintenance would
probably be higher, and I'd probably have to sink a fair amount of money
into upgrades and repairs. Even so, I'd still buy. The advantages are too
attractive to me.

It probably doesn't make financial sense. As Gordon Baxter put it, "How much
does it take to own an airplane? Everything you've got." There's an
intangible feeling there that, to me, is worth it.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!)
Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390

"Frank" wrote in message . ..
Since this is an aircraft owners newsgroup, that means it's the perfect place to ask about the costs associated with owning an airplane vs. renting.

Since I haven't started my private pilot lessons, I'm not familiar with all of the expenses associated with owning an aircraft. I have listed below a brief list of likely expenses (I think) and I asking for feedback on it.

I do understand that costs for each item can vary greatly from place to place and according to many factors, but I think this is a good start. I am imagining the purchase of a Cessna 172 with a couple of private pilot buddies and I came up with this:

1) Storage (what is the price difference between hangar and tie down?)
2) Insurance for plane
3) Normal service for plane (how often does the plane have to be serviced...and approximately how much?)
4) Repairs (I understand this is unpredictable...is their an annual "average" cost for problems?)

Can you give me a basic idea?

Fixed Costs:
1.. Loan (Principle and Interest) 755.00 That's 65,000.00 for 10 years at 7% YMMV
2.. Storage (75.00 per month for a Tie-Down and 300 to 700 for a hangar)
3.. Insurance (about 1200.00 per year or 100 per month)
4.. Annual (900.00 per year or 75 per month, annual ONLY)
Right there it will cost you $1,005.00 without EVER leaving the ground!

Variable Costs:

1.. Fuel @ 4.65 a gallon and burning 8.5 GPH is 39.53 per hour.
2.. Oil at 5.50 per quart and buring 1 qt every 7 hours is 0.79 per hour.
3.. Engine Amortization (this depends on the engine OH cost and the amount of time on the engine at purchase) Let's assume a mid-time engine. 20,000 cost for OH, 1000 hours TT on engine and 2000 hour TBO. Therefo 20.00 per hour.
4.. Oil Change every 50 hours. Cost 100 bucks. So 2.00 per hour.
5.. Unforseen Maintenance. This is a LUCK thing and how much you are willing to look the other way and put up with small to medium unpressing issues versus MUST do issues. I put 30.00 per hour away and I'm in the red by 3,000.00 and I've jacked my wallet at least 10,000.00 in six years for extra funding...and I'm STILL 3000 under-water!! I'd put about 40.00 per hour aside if you want it safe and right.
So about 102.32 per hour...

So...you pay 1,005.00 per month membership fees to your own flying club and that buys you the price of 102.32 per hour to fly the plane.

The fixed cost will drop for each partner, but the variable costs will always be about the same. The maintenance might drop in price per hour if the plane flys a lot because there will be more flying between problems, however, probably there will be more problems the more it flys.

Good luck, Kobra

Oh...I almost forgot....

Pitot static check every 2 years at 250.00 per.

Transponder check every 2 years at 250.00 per

New ELT every two years at 100.00

Amortization for new paint (let's assume new paint costs 9,000 and has to be
done every 15 years, let's assume the paint is 7.5 years old) therefore
100.00 per month for new paint.

Same deal for a new interior...100.00 per month.

And as Sonny and Cher aways said, "...and the beat goes on."

Kobra

Kobra wrote:
Oh...I almost forgot....

Pitot static check every 2 years at 250.00 per.

Transponder check every 2 years at 250.00 per

New ELT every two years at 100.00

Amortization for new paint (let's assume new paint costs 9,000 and has to be
done every 15 years, let's assume the paint is 7.5 years old) therefore
100.00 per month for new paint.

Same deal for a new interior...100.00 per month.

And as Sonny and Cher aways said, "...and the beat goes on."

Kobra



My pitot static / transponder is done together for $250.00. ELT battery
used to be $30.00 and just got a new one that uses Duracell.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

Kobra wrote:
Oh...I almost forgot....

Pitot static check every 2 years at 250.00 per.

Transponder check every 2 years at 250.00 per

New ELT every two years at 100.00

Amortization for new paint (let's assume new paint costs 9,000 and has to be
done every 15 years, let's assume the paint is 7.5 years old) therefore
100.00 per month for new paint.

Same deal for a new interior...100.00 per month.

And as Sonny and Cher aways said, "...and the beat goes on."

Kobra



My pitot/static and transponder checks get done together, and it has
always been less than $250 for both combined. ELT batteries for my ELT
(Narco ELT-10) run about $35. Those are all small expenses relatively
speaking. The big things are hangar rent, insurance, annual inpsection,
and repairs.

On Feb 18, 8:11*pm, "Kobra" wrote:
Oh...I almost forgot....

Pitot static check every 2 years at 250.00 per.

Transponder check every 2 years at 250.00 per


I also pay $250 but that's for a full pitot/static test. If you are
just VFR you can opt for only the transponder encoder test which
should be about 1/2 that price.

-Robert