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On Apr 4, 1:55*pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote: Gene Seibel wrote: This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be the group's "Idiot". There's those who have and those that will. *Folks want to stay in the latter group as long as possible. *To those who insist they could never make that same mistake, I just shake my head. *Usually it's a number of circumstances that come together for that Perfect Storm to blow in your direction. *And yes, I am in the former group.... having run a C-210 out of gas after a 45 minute flight with an hour and a half's worth of fuel on board. *Or at least I thought I had. My experience was certainly a classic example of a chain of events that combined to create a potential disaster. I allowed too many "little" things to add up. Each factor on their own wouldn't have caused the incident. -- Gene Seibel Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html Because we fly, we envy no one. |
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On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT), Gene Seibel
wrote: On Apr 4, 1:55*pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote: Gene Seibel wrote: This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be the group's "Idiot". There's those who have and those that will. *Folks want to stay in the latter group as long as possible. *To those who insist they could never make that same mistake, I just shake my head. *Usually it's a number of circumstances that come together for that Perfect Storm to blow in your direction. *And yes, I am in the former group.... having run a C-210 out of gas after a 45 minute flight with an hour and a half's worth of fuel on board. *Or at least I thought I had. My experience was certainly a classic example of a chain of events that combined to create a potential disaster. I allowed too many "little" things to add up. Each factor on their own wouldn't have caused the incident. Many (locals and newsgroups) give me a hard time as I almost always fly with full fuel, but I'm paranoid about fuel. I was headed home from HTL (Houghton Lake) which is a short 49 NM hop. I had just passed over GDW (Gladwin) when I noticed the left main was only about half full when it should have been still showing full. I gave the infamous "slide switches" some rapid movement back and fourth between tanks but in another minute it was showing lower, and still lower in another minute which had me making one of those steep slipping U-turns to GDW. A visual of the tank showed it to be nearly full. Some poking and prodding of said switches and the gage was showing full again. How such expensive airplanes can use such crappy switches in the fuel system is beyond me. However as to Cherokees, we had one member of our club of 5 who didn't fly all that often, but still managed to put quite a few more hours on the plane than the rest of us who flew quite often. We might fly a half hour to maybe a couple hours at a time while his fewer trips would be close to 5 hours each way such as taking his family from MI to MO. One night on the way home he had a bodacious head wind. He'd flown the route many times, but never thought about the effects of the wind. He landed here late at night. When he filled up he apparently had less than a gallon in one tank with the other dry. He didn't have enough fuel to do a go around. OTOH (and I've told this many times) We'd been out for several hours (Close to 3 IIRC) with me working on my instrument rating. We were doing the ILS 05 at MBS after returning from GDW. I'd called for the published missed on the option. I went full power at DH/MM, hit the gear switch, and brought the nose up to be greeted by .... *silence*. I had forgotten to switch from the AUX (level flight only) to the mains before starting the ILS. I never forgot again:-)) It's amazing how fast you can reach down and turn a valve that's in a position you can't even see. The instructor shouted "Left tank, Left tank Rog". I had them switched before he got out half of the first "Left". Again the engine was running almost instantly. Of course at that point the loudest noise in the plane was the sound of my heart beating in my ears. Whether it's fuel, pre flight, fasteners, what ever, we all make mistakes. Generally by themselves they are of little consequence or just embarrassing, but when coupled into "that chain of events" can prove disastrous.. A good friend and his brother took off for a flight around the area in his GP4. He had modified the plane to use a 250HP engine instead of the 4 cylinder. The wings had been moved to take care of the GC, but the CG was still a bit narrow. Pitch forces on the stick were non existent, roll was fine. Response was... shall we say *quick*. I sneezed while flying the thing and it took me about 2 miles to get rid of the PIO. He was a graduate of the school of stall avoidance, the GP-4 has a very small vertical stab and rudder. To add one more item (discovered later) his fuel tank caps had leaky seals. Put this whole chain of things together, the leaky caps emptied the tanks in less than an hour, they couldn't believe they were out of fuel yet, Stalled while trying for a restart, ended up in a flat spin all the way to the ground. No survivors. The largest piece was what was left of the engine. Roger (K8RI) ARRL Life Member N833R (World's oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
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On Apr 4, 10:53*am, Gene Seibel wrote:
Took off on a night flight in the Cherokee last November. I incorrectly remembered how much fuel I'd used on the previous flight by 20 minutes. I planned for what I believed to be a 45 minute reserve. Headwinds increased sooner along my path than I expected. By the time I reached my destination, the reserve had dwindled to what I believed was 30 minutes. I clicked my mic 5 times to turn on runway lights and they did not come on. Turns out this airport took 7 clicks to turn on. I'd heard of taking 7 for a certain intensity, but in my 30 years had never run into one that took 7 clicks to turn on. Had I stayed in the area, I'd have probably tried that next, but I knew there was another airport 12 minutes away whose lights stayed on, so I headed for it. Unfortunately the 30 minutes of fuel I thought I had was only 10. You were very lucky. Thanks for sharing. ...Snipped some. On the other hand, I know a person who made a daytime landing on a highway. FAA guy saw him putting in fuel on the evening news. They were going to warn him, but he told them, "F-- you, there's no law against being stupid", and he got a 90 day suspension. -- Gene Seibel Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes -http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html Because we fly, we envy no one. In ded it is more expensive to be stupid. Wil |
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On Apr 4, 4:02*pm, William Hung wrote:
On Apr 4, 10:53*am, Gene Seibel wrote: Took off on a night flight in the Cherokee last November. I incorrectly remembered how much fuel I'd used on the previous flight by 20 minutes. I planned for what I believed to be a 45 minute reserve. Headwinds increased sooner along my path than I expected. By the time I reached my destination, the reserve had dwindled to what I believed was 30 minutes. I clicked my mic 5 times to turn on runway lights and they did not come on. Turns out this airport took 7 clicks to turn on. I'd heard of taking 7 for a certain intensity, but in my 30 years had never run into one that took 7 clicks to turn on. Had I stayed in the area, I'd have probably tried that next, but I knew there was another airport 12 minutes away whose lights stayed on, so I headed for it. Unfortunately the 30 minutes of fuel I thought I had was only 10. You were very lucky. *Thanks for sharing. I know that I am very fortunate to be able to tell this story. It's mind boggling to think about the number of ways this could have gone very, very bad. -- Gene Seibel Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html Because we fly, we envy no one. |
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![]() "Gene Seibel" wrote: This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be the group's "Idiot". People who think they are immune to screwing the pooch like that are under a dangerous illusion, IMO. Thanks for sharing, Gene. -- Dan T-182T at BFM |
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On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:40:46 -0500, Jim Logajan
wrote: Tina wrote: The state cops could file all kinds of charges -- no plate, no inspection sticker, blocking traffic, the list goes on and on. All charges are of course optional. It's not a ground vehicle so such laws wouldn't appear to apply. And for the cops to cite for blocking traffic might be considered inimical to safety, as it would not be wise to put another decision burden on pilots in future emergency situations. It happens, though, and it's not unusual. Back when I lived in NJ a pilot made an emergency landing on the Garden State Parkway. I don't remember all the circumstances, nor what action (if any) the FAA took against the pilot, but the state police issued him a ticket for "entering the highway improperly" (i.e. not from an official on ramp) and "failure to pay a toll." I've heard of other similar incidents, though the details escape me. In the air, of course, the FAA has sole jurisdiction, but once the aircraft touches the ground state and local laws apply. Again in NJ, for example, it's illegal to operate an aircraft, except in an emergency, from anything other than a "state approved" airport. I once made a legitimate emergency landing (a "precautionary forced landing", actually) on a NJ pier, which was fine (and legal). I had no end of hassle with the NJ aviation authorities when I flew it out the next day after fixing the trouble (the emergency was over, so the takeoff was illegal). It's a long story which has been told here before... suffice to say that they dropped the matter as long as I promised never to land there again. -Dana -- -- If replying by email, please make the obvious changes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Q: Why is it that New Jersey got all the toxic waste dumps and California got all the lawyers? A: New Jersey had first choice. |
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