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Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BECHARGED!!



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 5th 08, 05:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gene Seibel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BECHARGED!!

On Apr 4, 1:55*pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Gene Seibel wrote:
This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the
tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to
share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be
the group's "Idiot".


There's those who have and those that will. *Folks want to stay in the latter
group as long as possible. *To those who insist they could never make that same
mistake, I just shake my head. *Usually it's a number of circumstances that come
together for that Perfect Storm to blow in your direction. *And yes, I am in the
former group.... having run a C-210 out of gas after a 45 minute flight with an
hour and a half's worth of fuel on board. *Or at least I thought I had.


My experience was certainly a classic example of a chain of events
that combined to create a potential disaster. I allowed too many
"little" things to add up. Each factor on their own wouldn't have
caused the incident.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.



  #2  
Old April 5th 08, 11:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BE CHARGED!!

On Sat, 5 Apr 2008 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT), Gene Seibel
wrote:

On Apr 4, 1:55*pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Gene Seibel wrote:
This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but with the
tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've been hesitant to
share my recent fuel exhaustion experience. Well, I'll go ahead and be
the group's "Idiot".


There's those who have and those that will. *Folks want to stay in the latter
group as long as possible. *To those who insist they could never make that same
mistake, I just shake my head. *Usually it's a number of circumstances that come
together for that Perfect Storm to blow in your direction. *And yes, I am in the
former group.... having run a C-210 out of gas after a 45 minute flight with an
hour and a half's worth of fuel on board. *Or at least I thought I had.


My experience was certainly a classic example of a chain of events
that combined to create a potential disaster. I allowed too many
"little" things to add up. Each factor on their own wouldn't have
caused the incident.


Many (locals and newsgroups) give me a hard time as I almost always
fly with full fuel, but I'm paranoid about fuel.

I was headed home from HTL (Houghton Lake) which is a short 49 NM
hop. I had just passed over GDW (Gladwin) when I noticed the left main
was only about half full when it should have been still showing full.
I gave the infamous "slide switches" some rapid movement back and
fourth between tanks but in another minute it was showing lower, and
still lower in another minute which had me making one of those steep
slipping U-turns to GDW. A visual of the tank showed it to be nearly
full. Some poking and prodding of said switches and the gage was
showing full again. How such expensive airplanes can use such crappy
switches in the fuel system is beyond me.

However as to Cherokees, we had one member of our club of 5 who didn't
fly all that often, but still managed to put quite a few more hours on
the plane than the rest of us who flew quite often. We might fly a
half hour to maybe a couple hours at a time while his fewer trips
would be close to 5 hours each way such as taking his family from MI
to MO. One night on the way home he had a bodacious head wind. He'd
flown the route many times, but never thought about the effects of the
wind. He landed here late at night. When he filled up he apparently
had less than a gallon in one tank with the other dry. He didn't have
enough fuel to do a go around.

OTOH (and I've told this many times) We'd been out for several hours
(Close to 3 IIRC) with me working on my instrument rating. We were
doing the ILS 05 at MBS after returning from GDW. I'd called for the
published missed on the option. I went full power at DH/MM, hit the
gear switch, and brought the nose up to be greeted by .... *silence*.
I had forgotten to switch from the AUX (level flight only) to the
mains before starting the ILS. I never forgot again:-)) It's amazing
how fast you can reach down and turn a valve that's in a position you
can't even see. The instructor shouted "Left tank, Left tank Rog". I
had them switched before he got out half of the first "Left". Again
the engine was running almost instantly. Of course at that point the
loudest noise in the plane was the sound of my heart beating in my
ears.

Whether it's fuel, pre flight, fasteners, what ever, we all make
mistakes. Generally by themselves they are of little consequence or
just embarrassing, but when coupled into "that chain of events" can
prove disastrous..

A good friend and his brother took off for a flight around the area in
his GP4. He had modified the plane to use a 250HP engine instead of
the 4 cylinder. The wings had been moved to take care of the GC, but
the CG was still a bit narrow. Pitch forces on the stick were non
existent, roll was fine. Response was... shall we say *quick*. I
sneezed while flying the thing and it took me about 2 miles to get rid
of the PIO. He was a graduate of the school of stall avoidance, the
GP-4 has a very small vertical stab and rudder. To add one more item
(discovered later) his fuel tank caps had leaky seals.

Put this whole chain of things together, the leaky caps emptied the
tanks in less than an hour, they couldn't believe they were out of
fuel yet, Stalled while trying for a restart, ended up in a flat spin
all the way to the ground. No survivors. The largest piece was what
was left of the engine.

Roger (K8RI) ARRL Life Member
N833R (World's oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
  #3  
Old April 4th 08, 11:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
William Hung[_2_]
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Posts: 349
Default Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BECHARGED!!

On Apr 4, 10:53*am, Gene Seibel wrote:
Took off on a night flight in the Cherokee last November. I
incorrectly remembered how much fuel I'd used on the previous flight
by 20 minutes. I planned for what I believed to be a 45 minute
reserve. Headwinds increased sooner along my path than I expected. By
the time I reached my destination, the reserve had dwindled to what I
believed was 30 minutes. I clicked my mic 5 times to turn on runway
lights and they did not come on. Turns out this airport took 7 clicks
to turn on. I'd heard of taking 7 for a certain intensity, but in my
30 years had never run into one that took 7 clicks to turn on. Had I
stayed in the area, I'd have probably tried that next, but I knew
there was another airport 12 minutes away whose lights stayed on, so I
headed for it. Unfortunately the 30 minutes of fuel I thought I had
was only 10.


You were very lucky. Thanks for sharing.

...Snipped some.



On the other hand, I know a person who made a daytime landing on a
highway. FAA guy saw him putting in fuel on the evening news. They
were going to warn him, but he told them, "F-- you, there's no law
against being stupid", and he got a 90 day suspension.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes -http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.


In ded it is more expensive to be stupid.

Wil
  #4  
Old April 5th 08, 05:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Gene Seibel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 223
Default Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BECHARGED!!

On Apr 4, 4:02*pm, William Hung wrote:
On Apr 4, 10:53*am, Gene Seibel wrote:

Took off on a night flight in the Cherokee last November. I
incorrectly remembered how much fuel I'd used on the previous flight
by 20 minutes. I planned for what I believed to be a 45 minute
reserve. Headwinds increased sooner along my path than I expected. By
the time I reached my destination, the reserve had dwindled to what I
believed was 30 minutes. I clicked my mic 5 times to turn on runway
lights and they did not come on. Turns out this airport took 7 clicks
to turn on. I'd heard of taking 7 for a certain intensity, but in my
30 years had never run into one that took 7 clicks to turn on. Had I
stayed in the area, I'd have probably tried that next, but I knew
there was another airport 12 minutes away whose lights stayed on, so I
headed for it. Unfortunately the 30 minutes of fuel I thought I had
was only 10.


You were very lucky. *Thanks for sharing.


I know that I am very fortunate to be able to tell this story. It's
mind boggling to think about the number of ways this could have gone
very, very bad.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.
  #5  
Old April 5th 08, 01:45 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dan Luke[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 713
Default Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BE CHARGED!!


"Gene Seibel" wrote:

This forum should be a good place to share experiences, but
with the tendency to pile on people that make mistakes, I've
been hesitant to share my recent fuel exhaustion experience.
Well, I'll go ahead and be the group's "Idiot".


People who think they are immune to screwing the pooch like that are under a
dangerous illusion, IMO.

Thanks for sharing, Gene.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM


  #6  
Old April 4th 08, 10:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dana M. Hague
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Posts: 102
Default Idiot Pilot Runs Out of Gas - Lands Cessna on I-81 - CAN'T BE CHARGED!!

On Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:40:46 -0500, Jim Logajan
wrote:

Tina wrote:
The state cops could file all kinds of charges -- no plate, no
inspection sticker, blocking traffic, the list goes on and on. All
charges are of course optional.


It's not a ground vehicle so such laws wouldn't appear to apply. And for
the cops to cite for blocking traffic might be considered inimical to
safety, as it would not be wise to put another decision burden on pilots in
future emergency situations.


It happens, though, and it's not unusual. Back when I lived in NJ a
pilot made an emergency landing on the Garden State Parkway. I don't
remember all the circumstances, nor what action (if any) the FAA took
against the pilot, but the state police issued him a ticket for
"entering the highway improperly" (i.e. not from an official on ramp)
and "failure to pay a toll."

I've heard of other similar incidents, though the details escape me.

In the air, of course, the FAA has sole jurisdiction, but once the
aircraft touches the ground state and local laws apply. Again in NJ,
for example, it's illegal to operate an aircraft, except in an
emergency, from anything other than a "state approved" airport. I
once made a legitimate emergency landing (a "precautionary forced
landing", actually) on a NJ pier, which was fine (and legal). I had
no end of hassle with the NJ aviation authorities when I flew it out
the next day after fixing the trouble (the emergency was over, so the
takeoff was illegal). It's a long story which has been told here
before... suffice to say that they dropped the matter as long as I
promised never to land there again.

-Dana
--
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A: New Jersey had first choice.
 




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