Here's a question for the trolls and flight simmers

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:55:18 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Stealth Pilot writes:



if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

Yes.

Microsoft Flight Simulator actually has better visuals than some
multimillion-dollar simulators. Does that mean that the latter are "bad"
simulators? No. It just means that these latter simulators emphasize other
aspects of the simulation; the relatively primitive visuals are there because
the simulator is not normally used for VFR simulation, and photorealistic
visuals are very expensive. You can bet that these expensive full-motion
simulators don't normally simulate heiligenschein, glories, rainbows, or other
minor phenomena, either.

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as more
important than reality. you really are wierd.

Stealth Pilot

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality. it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot

Stealth Pilot writes:

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as more
important than reality. you really are wierd.

I don't recall saying this, and I'm not sure how you drew this conclusion.

Simulations are obviously better than real life in some circumstances,
otherwise nobody would ever use simulations. I can get a large part of the
experience of flying through simulation, at very low cost and nil
inconvenience; the price/performance ratio is very good.

It's unfortunate that some pilots have a visceral, negative reaction to the
idea of flight simulation, since they are depriving themselves of many hours
of enjoyment with their vehement dismissal of simulation.

Of course, there are many pilots who don't suffer from these hang-ups, and
enjoy simulation greatly. Just because it isn't the real thing doesn't mean
it can't be a lot of fun, and it's very cheap.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Stealth Pilot writes:

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as more
important than reality. you really are wierd.

I don't recall saying this, and I'm not sure how you drew this
conclusion.

Simulations are obviously better than real life in some circumstances,


Well, there ya go. if you forget next time, we'll just quote this poast,
eh, fjukkwit?


Bertie

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-
447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators
work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed
to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality.
it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to
achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot


Well, we use 'em of course, but it's mainly because it's impractical to
actually set a 757 on fire.

Bertie

On Jun 30, 1:26*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote :

Stealth Pilot writes:

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as more
important than reality. you really are wierd.

0. Automaton has no time for reality. Automaton too busy conducting
Missed Approach

I don't recall saying this, and I'm not sure how you drew this
conclusion.

1. Automaton has no time for recollection. Automaton too busy
replacing faulty memory card. If memory serves and processing of
"recollecting upgrade" is complete, goto 3.

1.5 Automaton has no time for being sure about other's conclusion and
thus casts doubt on their psychological fitness. Automaton working on
drawing algorithm; expect update real soon now...

Simulations are obviously better than real life in some circumstances,

Well, there ya go. if you forget next time, we'll just quote this poast,
eh, fjukkwit?

2. Automaton has no time for forgetting. Automaton too busy
recollecting. Goto 1.

Bertie

3. Automaton is prepared to handle all attempts at penetration and
shall provide whatever obfuscation is required to protect itself...
Comfort zone preserved; Automaton shall continue, unimpeded by lower
order primates.

Obviously


4. Automaton has no time for emotion. Automaton too busy pushing
buttons.

5. Automaton has no time for understanding others. Automaton too busy
calculating next move.


"But I gave you life;
"What else would you do?"
"To do what was right."
"I'm perfect, are you?" - Karn Evil 9, 3rd Impression



oops, sorry wrong newsgroup......



Regards,
Jon


"The safety lecture continues...." - George Carlin

Jon wrote in
:

On Jun 30, 1:26*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
innews:qruh6497urgh579la2arqbf7a7rsb6h
:

Stealth Pilot writes:

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as
more important than reality. you really are wierd.

0. Automaton has no time for reality. Automaton too busy conducting
Missed Approach

I don't recall saying this, and I'm not sure how you drew this
conclusion.

1. Automaton has no time for recollection. Automaton too busy
replacing faulty memory card. If memory serves and processing of
"recollecting upgrade" is complete, goto 3.

1.5 Automaton has no time for being sure about other's conclusion and
thus casts doubt on their psychological fitness. Automaton working on
drawing algorithm; expect update real soon now...

Simulations are obviously better than real life in some
circumstances,

Well, there ya go. if you forget next time, we'll just quote this
poast, eh, fjukkwit?

2. Automaton has no time for forgetting. Automaton too busy
recollecting. Goto 1.

Bertie

3. Automaton is prepared to handle all attempts at penetration and
shall provide whatever obfuscation is required to protect itself...
Comfort zone preserved; Automaton shall continue, unimpeded by lower
order primates.

Obviously


4. Automaton has no time for emotion. Automaton too busy pushing
buttons.

5. Automaton has no time for understanding others. Automaton too busy
calculating next move.


"But I gave you life;
"What else would you do?"
"To do what was right."
"I'm perfect, are you?" - Karn Evil 9, 3rd Impression


Always liked ELP...



oops, sorry wrong newsgroup......


Nope, think you captured him perfectly.



Bertie

On Jun 30, 2:31*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jon wrote :



On Jun 30, 1:26*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
innews:qruh6497urgh579la2arqbf7a7rsb6h
:

Stealth Pilot writes:

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as
more important than reality. you really are wierd.

0. Automaton has no time for reality. Automaton too busy conducting
Missed Approach

I don't recall saying this, and I'm not sure how you drew this
conclusion.

1. Automaton has no time for recollection. Automaton too busy
replacing faulty memory card. If memory serves and processing of
"recollecting upgrade" is complete, goto 3.

1.5 Automaton has no time for being sure about other's conclusion and
thus casts doubt on their psychological fitness. Automaton working on
drawing algorithm; expect update real soon now...

Simulations are obviously better than real life in some
circumstances,

Well, there ya go. if you forget next time, we'll just quote this
poast, eh, fjukkwit?

2. Automaton has no time for forgetting. Automaton too busy
recollecting. Goto 1.

Bertie

3. Automaton is prepared to handle all attempts at penetration and
shall provide whatever obfuscation is required to protect itself...
Comfort zone preserved; Automaton shall continue, unimpeded by lower
order primates.

Obviously

4. Automaton has no time for emotion. Automaton too busy pushing
buttons.

5. Automaton has no time for understanding others. Automaton too busy
calculating next move.

"But I gave you life;
"What else would you do?"
"To do what was right."
"I'm perfect, are you?" - Karn Evil 9, 3rd Impression

Always liked ELP...

Saw 'em live in the 70's. One of the loudest indoor concerts I've ever
been to. They had additional speakers in the back of the hall, to
ensure the punishment was effective



oops, sorry wrong newsgroup......

Nope, think you captured him perfectly.

ewwww.... brushes off goo.....

Automaton Version Nextgen require immediate de-contamination!!

Bertie

Jon wrote in
:

On Jun 30, 2:31*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jon wrote
innews:68943fb0-5591-461e-9ab6-7b
:



On Jun 30, 1:26*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Mxsmanic wrote
innews:qruh6497urgh579la2arqbf7a7rsb6h
:

Stealth Pilot writes:

I'm always amazed at the way you see simplified simulations as
more important than reality. you really are wierd.

0. Automaton has no time for reality. Automaton too busy conducting
Missed Approach

I don't recall saying this, and I'm not sure how you drew this
conclusion.

1. Automaton has no time for recollection. Automaton too busy
replacing faulty memory card. If memory serves and processing of
"recollecting upgrade" is complete, goto 3.

1.5 Automaton has no time for being sure about other's conclusion
and thus casts doubt on their psychological fitness. Automaton
working on drawing algorithm; expect update real soon now...

Simulations are obviously better than real life in some
circumstances,

Well, there ya go. if you forget next time, we'll just quote this
poast, eh, fjukkwit?

2. Automaton has no time for forgetting. Automaton too busy
recollecting. Goto 1.

Bertie

3. Automaton is prepared to handle all attempts at penetration and
shall provide whatever obfuscation is required to protect itself...
Comfort zone preserved; Automaton shall continue, unimpeded by
lower order primates.

Obviously

4. Automaton has no time for emotion. Automaton too busy pushing
buttons.

5. Automaton has no time for understanding others. Automaton too
busy calculating next move.

"But I gave you life;
"What else would you do?"
"To do what was right."
"I'm perfect, are you?" - Karn Evil 9, 3rd Impression

Always liked ELP...

Saw 'em live in the 70's. One of the loudest indoor concerts I've ever
been to. They had additional speakers in the back of the hall, to
ensure the punishment was effective


Saw 'em about five times! Belive me, it's nothing on what they're doing
nowadays. I was at a Stereophionics concert a while back and it felt
like someone was pounding on my chest with their fists, I could feel a
draft up my trouser leg and my ears rang for a month afterwards.
Technology has caught up with R&R.


oops, sorry wrong newsgroup......

Nope, think you captured him perfectly.

ewwww.... brushes off goo.....

Automaton Version Nextgen require immediate de-contamination!!

Dog be with you in that endeaver.

Bertie

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:27:56 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

Stealth Pilot wrote in
:

On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 18:48:29 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:874ec04d-d3fb-
447e-
:

On Jun 29, 6:09 am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
...
the reason I asked the question was to point out that simulators
work
on a simplified model of the reality that real pilots are exposed
to.
people like mxsmanic seem utterly oblivious to the fact that their
exposure to the simulator will never give them competent knowledge
because all they are exposed to is a simplified model of reality.
it
is only exposure to the actual reality that will allow you to
achieve
competent knowledge.

Yesterday, wife and I sim'd the Luna 3 mission
to photograph the far side of the moon that the
Ruskies did in 1959. We used trial and error but
finally got it.
Those poor SOB's used vacuum tubes and slide
rules to "sim" the ballistics.

if simulators dont get something as simple as the aircraft's shadow
right can you trust that anything else they show you is right?

I'd love to put Stealth Pilot on the top of a ballistic
missile with a joy stick, and then have him execute
the simple manuever of a lunar orbital return mission
to earth. I'd be wearing a hard hat :-).




Of course you would k00kie boi.

Bertie

I wasnt aware that alfoil hats were hard. have these buggers been
using kevlar liners in them as well???

sims have a place in the industrial world but to prefer the sim to
reality is just nonsense. barking mad nonsense!

Stealth Pilot


Well, we use 'em of course, but it's mainly because it's impractical to
actually set a 757 on fire.

Bertie

I have a friend who is part owner of a cherokee 140. ...the blandest
aeroplane in history???
he spent hundreds of hours flying microsoft flight sim and a few other
sims.
fair dinks, one day he was out with partner owner in a gusting
crosswind and almost lost the cherokee in a landing.

partner's conclusion was that he landed the simulator because not once
during the near prang did he apply rudder.
scared the partner to his boots.

turns out the sim setup at home doesnt have rudder pedals.

my conviction is that sims used as a substitute for real flying are a
bloody danger to all involved. they gradually replace the real skills
with slow reacting putty.
if you understand the body's processes of neurological tuning you will
have no problem understanding why.

Stealth(20 knot crosswinds from any direction ...not a problem) pilot