Crab, slips, and crossed controls

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| Amine wrote in news:18e46a13-6294-4b68-9775-
| :
|
| Hey,
|
| Some of you may have heard of Air Canada 143 [http://www.youtube.com/
| watch?v=dfJIpA2gv1g] which ran out of fuel in mid air and had to make
| an emergency descent at velocities way above the normal limits. The
| pilot's makeshift technique was to engage a sideslip to decelerate the
| aircraft (which by then had no flaps, and only minimal hydraulics).
|
| Now I thought that sideslips (and crabs--whatever the difference
| between the two is...) were only to be used to handle crosswinds.
|
| They're different and they aren't just used for crosswinds.
|
|
| I
| didn't read anywhere that they could be used to bleed excessive speed,
| although it makes sense from an aerodynamics perspective. Anyone out
| there used sideslips for anything other than crosswind approaches?
|
| PS: I have read about many cases of jetliners that had to make
| emergency descents at abnormally high speeds, but the AC143 seems the
| only one to have used the sideslip.
|
|
|
| it isn't.
|
|
| Bertie

Got a link?
Didn't think so.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...
| "RandyL" rlink(AT)cableone(DOT)net wrote in
| :
|
| Hi Amine,
| I'll sometimes use a sideslip on final when I want to practice an
| approach without using any flaps.
|
| That's actually a forwad slip.
|
|
|
|
| Bertie

That's a slip.

Bertie the Bunyip schrieb:
Stefan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip schrieb:

You're full of ****, stefan.
Still better than completely hollow like you.

Slips are slips no matter where you are and slips, while
aerodynamically identical have different references.
Of course they have different references... visual references, that
is: In one, you look straight ahead, in the other, you look slightly
to one side. I'm fully aware that this difference is enough for simple
minded like you to think they are two different maneuvres.


Yeah, right backpedaling boi.

You're halluzinating, as usual.

And the follow-up trick is soooooo old and soooo booooring.

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Robert Moore schrieb:

A slip is a slip is a slip.

From The FAA H-8083-3a, Airplane Flying Handbook

Ok, so in the USA there exist several different brands of slips.

In the rest of the world however, a slip is a slip is a slip. Which is how
airplanes see it, too, I suppose.

They are two different maneuvers used for two different purposes.

Using your logic, an Immelman is a Split-S. Sorry, doesn't pass the BS
test. Try again.

On Sep 23, 8:17 am, John Godwin wrote:

That's incredible. When I took my CFI Ride, I had to demonstrate a
maximum effort forward slip on final. Kicked out when I was over the
fence and hit the numbers. Seems as if your instructor didn't know the
difference between a slip and a skid.

A number of aircraft that I've flown do not have flaps and the
sideslip was an everyday common maneuver .
I found the practice was frowned upon in the modern aircraft as there
were claims that the elevators were shielded and all manner of
problems could develop

george wrote in news:7f5d8c7e-2345-427c-bec6-
:

On Sep 23, 8:17 am, John Godwin wrote:

That's incredible. When I took my CFI Ride, I had to demonstrate a
maximum effort forward slip on final. Kicked out when I was over the
fence and hit the numbers. Seems as if your instructor didn't know the
difference between a slip and a skid.

A number of aircraft that I've flown do not have flaps and the
sideslip was an everyday common maneuver .
I found the practice was frowned upon in the modern aircraft as there
were claims that the elevators were shielded and all manner of
problems could develop



Some early big flap cessnas got a little wobbly, but that's all. The Bird
dog gets very funky when slipped with full flaps ~( 60 deg) but mostly it's
just another skill falling into decline because it's "too hard"


Bertie

"Amine" wrote in message
...
Hey,

Some of you may have heard of Air Canada 143 [http://www.youtube.com/
watch?v=dfJIpA2gv1g] which ran out of fuel in mid air and had to make
an .

Oh, the Gimli Glider...

The
pilot's makeshift technique was to engage a sideslip to decelerate the
aircraft (which by then had no flaps, and only minimal hydraulics).

Ok, I wouldn't describe it as a "emergency descent at velocities way above
the normal limits" - they were trying to glide into a former airport for a
landing. Since they didn't have any flaps, they had to come in faster than
usual and the pilot used a slip to control the glide angle (not decelerate)
since he didn't have flaps / spoilers / power to work with.
Nothing makeshift about that.


Now I thought that sideslips (and crabs--whatever the difference
between the two is...) were only to be used to handle crosswinds. I
didn't read anywhere that they could be used to bleed excessive speed,
although it makes sense from an aerodynamics perspective. Anyone out
there used sideslips for anything other than crosswind approaches?

It was used in this case to control the glide angle - a typical thing to do
in aircraft without flaps and sometimes a handy tool if you do have flaps.
I used to fly a Cessna 120 which didn't have flaps - I would slip in to a
landing more often than not.

But a very aggessive side slip tend to be uncomfortable for passengers.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...

Slips are slips no matter where you are and slips, while aerodynamically
identical have different references.

This is one of those aeronautical "discussions" that can go on forever
without a clear winner or loser, unless you can agree on who's definition you
wish to accept. For very basic piloting questions like this, I keep an old copy
of "Stick and Rudder" on the shelf. I found it interesting that Wolfgang
apparently found no need to make a distinction; regardless if done for glidepath
control or landing in a crosswind, he calls them both "sideslips".

Go figure.

Vaughn

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...

Slips are slips no matter where you are and slips, while
aerodynamically identical have different references.

This is one of those aeronautical "discussions" that can go on
forever
without a clear winner or loser, unless you can agree on who's
definition you wish to accept. For very basic piloting questions like
this, I keep an old copy of "Stick and Rudder" on the shelf. I found
it interesting that Wolfgang apparently found no need to make a
distinction; regardless if done for glidepath control or landing in a
crosswind, he calls them both "sideslips".

Mmm, cept Stefan the cheese nazi has no intention of discussing anythign.


Bertie

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Robert Moore schrieb:

A slip is a slip is a slip.

From The FAA H-8083-3a, Airplane Flying Handbook

Ok, so in the USA there exist several different brands of slips.

In the rest of the world however, a slip is a slip is a slip. Which is
how airplanes see it, too, I suppose.

Yea, but you have to remember which is which in case it comes up on a test.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.