Programme about Amiens Prison Raid

"Peter Stickney" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Keith Willshaw" writes:

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

How exactly did they aim the bombs?


The British A-2 bombsight.


The Mosquitos of no 2 Group usually used the Mk III
Low-Level bomb sight which was designed for use
below 1000ft and mostly used by coastal command

According to the copy of the orders at the Bomber COmmand link you
posted above, Keith, teh bombers were all FB Mk VIs. (SOlid-nose
Fighter bombers).

Keith seldom reads and understands his own URLs.

That would suggest that they used standard WW2 fighter-bomber
techniques - Reflector sight, with a depressed reticle if possible,
and use of the Pilot's 4 lb (1.7 Kilo) Meat Computer to process TLAR
information. (TLAR = That Looks About Right).

Art is right on again?

Does Keith live in a pickle barrel?

In article , Krztalizer
writes
I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen

Wow - you should write a book about them!


For six years, I've researched for a book called "Two Minutes To Midnight", the
story of the Luftwaffe's failed attempts to stop the Mosquito strikes on
Berlin. A couple years back, I held the only postwar reunion of the Mosquito
hunters in Germany - I brought together the survivors of Kdo Welter (jets) and
JG 300's 10th Staffel (souped-up Bf 109 G-10s). I even tracked down Mosquito
airmen they shot down over Berlin. Still working on that one as the German
archival material (four file boxes full) is kickin my ass. For that project, I
began collecting Mosquito photographs, soon realizing that 90% of them would
not actually qualify for the project. Looking at the pile of ~200 Mosquito
photos, a couple friends pointed out that we already have more of them than a
typical YAMB (yet another Mosquito book), so we've decided to over-caption them
with every bit of info we can find for each photo. We're at the 90% stage at
the moment - Dave K is doing all the hard stuff while I do the horsetrading for
more Mossie pix.

So what do you do in your copious free time?

Btw, I have an archive of over 8,000 original photos of hundreds of aircraft
types and I am open to trade them for Mosquito photos. Hmmm? Anyone...? (One
note, I definitely have enough of RR299, the T.III airshow performer that went
down in the UK last decade.)

I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen

Wow - you should write a book about them!


To finally answer your question, I YAMB!

Please let us all know when it's done - I'll have a cheque in the post
the same day...

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Cheers,

Dave
--
Dave Eadsforth

To finally answer your question, I YAMB!

Please let us all know when it's done - I'll have a cheque in the post
the same day...

We're working hard on it every day - hope to be able to give some positive news
about it soon. If you go to Robert Bailey's website (excellent aviation
painter at

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/ba...rt_Bailey/Robe
rt_Bailey_s__Two_Minutes_t/robert_bailey_s__two_minutes_t.html

- you can see the cover art for our book.

v/r
Gordon
PS, the painting is of my friend Jorg shooting down my friend Harry over the
Doberitz "Opera Haus".

Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

According to McBean & Hogden in "Bombs Away", the bombs
used in the Amiens prison raid were 500lb MC bombs, fitted
with 11 second delay fuses; dropped at very low level to skip
over the ground and hit the prison walls. The walls were
reportedly about 1m thick, hence the bombs would not easily
go through them. I suppose fairly long delays were used to
protect the bombers from the blast of their own bombs.

This is speculation, but

If skip-bombing over the ground, wouldn't the fuses start to run on the
first impact? Which would be pretty much directly below the attacking
aircraft? Eleven seconds may have been chosen to allow safe separation
for the worst case (bomb dropped early/bomb missing the walls and
following the aircraft...)

Eunometic wrote:
nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message
...
I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen and
read most of the available works about them - first I have heard
this. One hundred knots over the target would have been absolute
suicide.

TV strikes again; within a couple of years, folks will all "agree"
that this was a fact. :\


A dozen agincourt longbowmen with fire arrows could have brought down
the wooden wonder at that speed.

How exactly did they aim the bombs?

We'd just had a documentary about it on Channel 5 in the UK, just last week.
The narrator said they just used their judgement.

I can't remember whether I recorded it but I'll look through my tapes to
check,


Richard.

Subject: Programme about Amiens Prison Raid
From: Alan Dicey
Date: 4/27/04 3:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Emmanuel Gustin wrote:

According to McBean & Hogden in "Bombs Away", the bombs
used in the Amiens prison raid were 500lb MC bombs, fitted
with 11 second delay fuses; dropped at very low level to skip
over the ground and hit the prison walls. The walls were
reportedly about 1m thick, hence the bombs would not easily
go through them. I suppose fairly long delays were used to
protect the bombers from the blast of their own bombs.

This is speculation, but

If skip-bombing over the ground, wouldn't the fuses start to run on the
first impact? Which would be pretty much directly below the attacking
aircraft? Eleven seconds may have been chosen to allow safe separation
for the worst case (bomb dropped early/bomb missing the walls and
following the aircraft...)


Not if the first impact started the timer.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article , Krztalizer
writes

To finally answer your question, I YAMB!

Please let us all know when it's done - I'll have a cheque in the post
the same day...

We're working hard on it every day - hope to be able to give some positive news
about it soon. If you go to Robert Bailey's website (excellent aviation
painter at

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/ba...rt_Bailey/Robe
rt_Bailey_s__Two_Minutes_t/robert_bailey_s__two_minutes_t.html

- you can see the cover art for our book.

It's a beaut - and 'Moonlight Strike' is great as well - in fact the
whole site is very impressive (and to think I've just wallpapered the
living room. Tch.)

v/r
Gordon
PS, the painting is of my friend Jorg shooting down my friend Harry over the
Doberitz "Opera Haus".

--
Dave Eadsforth

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message ...
Eunometic wrote:
nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message
...
I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen and
read most of the available works about them - first I have heard
this. One hundred knots over the target would have been absolute
suicide.

TV strikes again; within a couple of years, folks will all "agree"
that this was a fact. :\


A dozen agincourt longbowmen with fire arrows could have brought down
the wooden wonder at that speed.

How exactly did they aim the bombs?

We'd just had a documentary about it on Channel 5 in the UK, just last week.
The narrator said they just used their judgement.

I can't remember whether I recorded it but I'll look through my tapes to
check,


No one seems to know for sure do they?

The task of bomb aiming at low level must have been formidable. For
instance if a bombsight was used it would need to know altitude above
ground. But how? A radio altimeter feeding into a computing
bombsight would be maybe 30ft. A barometric device about the same but
would need to also need to know the altitude above sea level which
adds another source of error. Maybe there more accurate devices but
I don't think so.

In an attack at 100ft a 50ft errror would produce a big error in bomb
hit: about 30/100 = 50%

In an attack at 8000 ft that is 30/8000 or about 0.4%

The most accurate method of attack I think of is the glide/slide
bombing using a computing bombsight (eg the Stuvi of the Ju 88 and I
think some of the British sights could work in a dive) but that still
isn't a low level attack whuch could get a bomb within 10 meters quite
with good consistantly.

I recall reading about Fw 190 pilots on the Eastern front attacking
T34 tanks simply by flying the nose over the tank and releasing a bomb
to slide along the steppe. It was regarded as accurate method.

So I suspect they relied to a certain extent on the bomb sliding along
the ground. The accuracy required would be greatly reduced.





Richard.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message ...
"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

How exactly did they aim the bombs?


The British A-2 bombsight.


The Mosquitos of no 2 Group usually used the Mk III
Low-Level bomb sight which was designed for use
below 1000ft and mostly used by coastal command

Keith


How did this work? How was altitude maintained? how was it entered
into the bombsight? Was it a computing bombsight?

(ArtKramr) wrote in message ...
Subject: Programme about Amiens Prison Raid
From: (Eunometic)
Date: 4/26/04 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(Krztalizer) wrote in message
...
I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen and read most
of
the available works about them - first I have heard this. One hundred
knots
over the target would have been absolute suicide.

TV strikes again; within a couple of years, folks will all "agree" that
this
was a fact. :\


A dozen agincourt longbowmen with fire arrows could have brought down
the wooden wonder at that speed.

How exactly did they aim the bombs?


The British A-2 bombsight.




I forewarn you of my up an comming critical attack on the Norden next
week. I would welcome your comment.